Hitler came to this decision by an incredibly convoluted and illogical process. Since Britain refused to sign a peace treaty, and since invading Britain would be extremely hazardous given the strength of the Royal Navy and the weakness of the German navy, Hitler concluded that the only way to overcome Britain would be to destroy the Soviet Union. Hitler decided that Russia was Britain’s chief remaining hope for assistance, its “continental dagger,” and once the Soviet Union was destroyed, the British would see reason and give in.
[...]
A war against Russia would be nothing like the war in the west, where distances were limited, populations concentrated, objectives close, and the Atlantic Ocean a finite boundary.
Cassander: “The Germans also beat the French and Brits, despite them [France/England] having much more of almost everything.”
Now that is a fair point. How did Germany achieve that victory against superior forces? A key factor was the use of Surprise — the French never expected the Germans to advance through the “impassable” Ardennes forest.
Stalin was smart, so we can assume he studied the proven benefit of Surprise. He was also notoriously suspicious, and would presumably do everything he could to keep plans for a surprise attack close to his chest.
“The Soviet army suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties against Finland.”
Again, a fair point. What that demonstrated to Stalin was it is very tough to attack a well-prepared defensive position. He undoubtedly noticed that German by-passed France’s defensive Maginot line rather than trying to attack it.
Being smart, Stalin thus learned the importance of digging in if the intent was to defend against attack. Stalin had had 18 months to prepare defensive positions in occupied Poland, but had not. If anything, Stalin was using early 1941 to prepare jumping off positions.
It seems everyone agrees that Germany and the USSR were destined to fight at some point. Inevitably, one side or the other was going to toss aside the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and attack. The logical explanation of Stalin’s posture in the summer of 1941, given all he had learned & observed in the war so far, was that he was preparing a surprise attack — but Hitler got there first.
“They did but what I read was that they had spies watching the factories that made winter clothing and they monitored German issue of light oils for weapons that would work in winter. They felt these were iron clad guarantees of evidence that Hitler was going to attack but Hitler fooled them by not doing any of these things.
The messages from the front and intelligence about troop movements were constantly warning about an attack but they were ignored because they had so much faith in these alternate indicators related to supply. I think it was David Irving that wrote about this but I couldn’t be sure.”
So that is your excuse why Soviet Union that was about to attack with +million men was incapable of detecting German attack…. Local of Nazi troop concentrations, where are the panzer divisions and where are the horse driven infantry, Army and Corps artillery deployments strength and depth of defence in various axis of defence/advance are things completely alien to your mind.
Sam J.: “They did but what I read was that they had spies watching the factories that made winter clothing and they monitored German issue of light oils for weapons that would work in winter.”
Lucklucky: “So that is your excuse why Soviet Union that was about to attack with +million men was incapable of detecting German attack…”
No it’s not. It’s a way to explain Stalin’s behavior. It’s what others have come up with as an explanation for very odd behavior on Stalin’s part. You somehow saying I’m responsible for this is you, as many of you are want to do, making shit up out of nothing and attributing it me. Which is a way of deflecting issues. As if somehow I’m responsible for Stalin’s decisions, snicker. He was warned and ignored the warnings. I suspect he felt he had time to finish his preparations for the attack on Germany he was going to do but it could be we will never know. You know so much tell me why Stalin ignored all the warnings?
“Local of Nazi troop concentrations, where are the panzer divisions and where are the horse driven infantry, Army and Corps artillery deployments strength and depth of defence in various axis of defence/advance are things completely alien to your mind.”
Uhhh…says who? You are once again making stuff up. What does anything I have said have anything to do with what Stalin was thinking in WWII. I’ll tell you, nothing. Nothing at all. Your arguments are really getting weak and incoherent if you think you can blame Stalin’s lack of defensive preparations on my thoughts decades later. It appears that you’ve run out of coherent arguments and are just throwing anything you can think of out there hoping something will stick. Fail.
Szopen says,”…You are also saying something about “demonizing Hitler,” as if this monster needed to be demonized. Do you think Hitler was not an evil monster?”
Hitler was trying to protect his country from the global homo Jews that had totally destroyed his country. They did the exact same thing they are doing in the US right now. They used banking to print extraordinary amounts of money to buy up everything they could, they pushed homo, trans whatever. They prostituted children.
Hitler had a small room and when he got up in the mornings he would see a Jew pimp setting up his German pre-teens to prostitute themselves so they and their families would not starve.
They did exactly as they are right now with their press to constantly degrade and destroy the moral of the German people. They constantly poured hatred on them. They talked openly about importing Blacks to miscegenate the German population. They bribed all the politicians to do as they wished. I mean right now, this minute is a complete repeat of what happened in Germany.
It’s very possible that Trump was the Jews “Hitler” except this time they decided to hire their own instead of have a real one pop up they couldn’t control. Trump spent all this time and in no way changed the trajectory of the country.
Without the Jews aggressive psychopathic behavior there would have never been a Hitler. People can only stand so much of psychopaths behavior whether Jews or not and eventually they will either try to run away from them or do what ever they have to do to stop this aggression.
This has been going on for thousands of years. It’s a like a broken record. The Jews have been thrown out of every single country in all history that they have been in any substantial numbers and it’s because their behavior is evil and their hatred for all others becomes a burden that people eventually will do anything to get them away from them. Even elect Hitler.
The Jews are always whining about Hitler but why the hell didn’t they just leave? And if their excuse is no one would take them then why was that? What is it about the Jews that so many countries did not want them in their country? They could have and many left.
It’s not any big secret what the Jews did in Germany. The Jews in Germany knew what was going on just like the Jews in the US do now. They had to know commie Jews had taken over one province of Germany and immediately started murdering officials right and left. They had to know the Jewish bankers destroyed the currency, made the middle class paupers overnight and generally wrecked the whole country. They had to know that the commie Jews during the war were pushing strikes in the ammunition factories. I mean what do you expect if you wreck a country such that children are prostituting themselves on the streets so their families would not starve, what exactly do you expect the reaction would be to that?
And let’s be clear as soon as Hitler gained power the inflation stopped. He put everyone to work and while in the depression in the US farmers were hanging themselves in their barns Germans were going on company paid vacations.
Hitlers biggest mistake was he should have done everything in his power to deport the Jews. He should have built the flimsiest boats he could, packed them all on them and set them adrift to anywhere, anywhere but Germany.
“And let’s be clear as soon as Hitler gained power the inflation stopped.”
Ahem, hyper inflation ended in 1923.
“And let’s be clear as soon as Hitler gained power the inflation stopped.”
I had read that several times in several places but checking again you’re right.
What Hitler did was stop the deflation and put everyone to work. He moved Germany out of the global homo banking system and stopped the bleeding as their finances were in sorry shape.
“Hitler appointed Hjalmar Schacht, a former member of the German Democratic Party, as Chairman of the Reichsbank in 1933 and Minister of Economics in 1934.”
I got the impression reading elsewhere that Hitler putting in Hjalmar Schacht was a turning point and he stopped inflation, but it was putting people to work and dealing with moving from private banking that he helped. I think he worked out the barter of goods between nations that kept German exports moving without the global homo.
Hitler sucked. He destroyed Germany in the end. And he blamed… the Germans.
If you find yourself defending someone everyone hates, that’s a bit questionable. But if you find yourself defending a loser, you’ve absolutely taken a wrong turn somewhere.
It’s the same narcissistic psychology as Lost Cause theory. Most losers deserve to lose, and a big part of why they deserve to lose is they never admit fault.
Hitler was a flaccid schmuck who came to a tawdry end. Let him rot.
“Hitler sucked. He destroyed Germany in the end. And he blamed… the Germans…”
Says who. QUI, QUI???
“…if you find yourself defending a loser, you’ve absolutely taken a wrong turn somewhere…”
The whole entire White population of the US and most of Europe have lost. They are being totally disenfranchised from their own countries. So they are losers but I defend them.
It appears to me that what destroyed the Germans and Hitler were Britain, the US and Russia. Not that he didn’t make mistakes but fighting against this vast array of countries and resources might have had at least a little something to do with it.
“Not that he didn’t make mistakes….”
like starting a war he couldn’t win.
Haven’t much use for identity politics, myself. I know who I am, and I know I have my own back. Identifying with a race or a nation is for weaklings. Only weak people need a strong leader.
“How Hitler Could Have Won WWII”
Short answer – he couldn’t.
People get hoodwinked by the initial successes in the war, as if they indicate that Nazi Germany was some sort of martial juggernaut. I won’t go into the complex reasons why, but suffice it to say that there was never a “path forward” to victory, even if they had gotten everything 100% right.
Certainly, Victor Davis Hanson’s view in “The Second World Wars” was that the Axis powers had no chance of prevailing — out-manned, out-resourced, out-produced.
Hitler might have been able to win a different war against the USSR alone, but that would have required a different set of circumstances:
a. England & France being wise enough not to start a Phony War over Poland.
b. The US having a different president than FDR, with his burning aim to make the world safe for Communism, willingness to give Stalin almost a blank check for all the Lend-Lease war material he wanted.
c. A smarter Hitler who would have enlisted to his side the Poles, Ukrainians, etc who mostly hated Stalin, instead of turning them against Germany.
Such a war might have ended up with an uneasy border along the Ural Mountains — western Russia under German control and the USSR restricted to Siberia (and probably facing threats from Japan). But it did not happen. Given the characteristics of Stalin, Hitler, FDR, and Churchill, it probably never could have happened.
Harry Jones says, “Haven’t much use for identity politics, myself. I know who I am, and I know I have my own back. Identifying with a race or a nation is for weaklings. Only weak people need a strong leader.”
Yeah well I used to be like that too. Perfect specimen of the typical deracinated White Male but after 9-11 someone told me that it was an inside job and I told them they were full of it and I would prove it. I was not able too and in fact the more I looked the more I saw that my mental framework of the individualist was the loser position. That the Jews and other groups working together had run all over us. People join gangs because it works for them.
Now I’m not the smartest bulb in the batch nor the strongest mentally or physically. A fairly poor specimen over all but I bet ten of me could kick the shit out of 1 of the best.
I realized that one of these nature shows I used to like so much was telling me something. Lions mostly have the big guy with all the lionesses and periodically a bachelor comes in and fights him for the rule but…every so often a couple of bachelors any one of which are not equal to the king come in and they beat him most of the time and they share.
I say it’s better to share the lionesses than have none at all.
As for Hitler I think there’s some probability that he could have prevailed but it would have been tight. I have mentioned, over and over, how the Italians got in trouble setting back the invasion to help them. That really set them back. Without the cold and the weather (if I remember correctly the weather was some of the coldest in a long time). A real detriment to the Germans).
I also have mentioned that I think a really, really big set back was Goring telling Hitler he could deliver supplies to Stalingrad but he knew he could not and delivered somewhere around 25% of what he promised.
But let’s go back even further. I think if Hitler as soon as possible that he had control of France had told Rommel that he wanted Gibraltar what ever the cost and throw everything into it he could then blockading the Med. from the British and then taking the canal. It would have stopped a lot of irritation later and possibly provided oil and other supplies.
He should have spent like crazy to get slow big air transport like they did towards the end of the war. Especially these low cost transport converted from a huge glider.
Millipede Me_323
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_323
These things were cheap as planes go mostly made of wood with a few metal stringers. With enough of these he could have prevailed in Russia or at least drove them back enough that they could not threaten Germany. He could have rapidly flown troops back and forth to different regions like a supercharged Roman empire with planes instead of good roads.
He should have left the British alone except for submarine warfare and he should have pushed that harder.
One last thing he should have went to a full on, every body on the deck, building war materials 24 hours a day but he was overconfident because of the poor showing of the Russians.
Looking at the time line of the war it would have been damn difficult to do this and it would have worn his Men to a frazzle but…if he could have pulled it off the whole thing would have multiplied by a large factor his strength over all and set into motion a large multiplier effect. Being able to take the oil fields and advancing synthetic oil product would have satisfied one of his biggest problems, oil supply.
If I ever get time enough to blog again, I might do a series on lost cause theories and the psychology behind them.
Everything is everybody else’s fault. That’s the takeaway from last Days of Hitler. Most ideology is excuse making and blame shifting.
Never start a war you can’t win, and never lose a war you didn’t start.
I judge people not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Sometimes I judge them very harshly. Bad people suck. The single greatest failure of Christendom is the cargo cult of unconditional love divorced from merit. That’s what sneaks collectivism in the back door.
“Identifying with a race or a nation is for weaklings. Only weak people need a strong leader.”
Works when times are good and there’s lots of cargo to spread around.
When things get tough, those who band together are the ones more likely to pull through.
“When things get tough, those who band together are the ones more likely to pull through.”
Now that’s a cargo cult. The cult of solidarity.
It makes all the difference in the world whom you band together with. Remember: we’re all in this separately. We’ll have a better chance of getting off the island if we kill Gilligan.
Only weak people need a strong leader, because they don’t know how to band together without one. This applies especially when times get tough.
Harry Jones says, “Only weak people need a strong leader, because they don’t know how to band together without one…”
Propaganda. If Whites looked after their needs like Jews do the Jews would be ruined. We don’t need their FED bank. In fact we need nothing at all from them and their control nexus. There’s serious heavy duty propaganda constant;y forced down our throats to look after everyone but ourselves.
Notice the Jews don’t follow any of this, so important, advice they keep giving us.
In which case, Whites would be stupid for not looking after their own needs, whatever that means.
I look after my needs, and I respect anyone else who looks after his own needs. Anyone who doesn’t look after his own needs deserves to end up in the gutter.
Still trying to figure out whether you hate Jews or admire them. You keep paying them compliments phrased as invective.
Most of this page is well ranting about ahistorical whatifs; however, the below needs an answer.
“Identifying with a race or a nation is for weaklings. Only weak people need a strong leader.”
Well, the other weaklings are fixing to erase us, Harry. Explicitly. Because they band together. The other weaklings know that gangs, never mind nations, outnumber the one man with his own back.
And are you going to have the courage of your convictions and turn in your passport, citizenship, go live in the Wilderness alone?
As it happens all we lack are leaders, but it seems enough. Even weak leaders would be an improvement.
Gavin: “c. A smarter Hitler who would have enlisted to his side the Poles, Ukrainians, etc who mostly hated Stalin, instead of turning them against Germany.”
That’s not Hitler then, and not the Nazi regime. Most the the “they could have won” alternate scenarios essentially rely on the Nazis not being Nazis. What it boils down to is that because the Nazis were Nazis, there is no scenario that Germany could have won even a completely different war under almost any other scenario, because every one of those scenarios rely on them somehow stopping being Nazis.
Nazis don’t make friends with Slavs, they exterminate them. Generalplan Ost?
If your “they could have won” scenario relied on Nazis teaming up with Slavs, well, then, they wouldn’t be Nazis anymore. And again, that is why I say that there is no way the Nazis could have won.
“Nazis don’t make friends with Slavs.”
The Volga Rises in Europe, a collection of stories by “Curzio Malaparte”, the German-speaking correspondent covering the Eastern Front for an Italian newspaper, has vignettes that illustrate pretty well how the Germans managed to alienate anti-communist Slavs who would otherwise have been natural allies.
It’s a worthwhile exercise to draw analogies to the situation in the USA today.
“No, it’s not. It’s a way to explain Stalin’s behavior. It’s what others have come up with as an explanation for very odd behavior on Stalin’s part.”
So, you believe that Soviet Union would attack with no intelligence on enemy troops dispositions? You already have shown here often that everything you read if it fits into your preconceptions you accept it regardless of its rationality. Basically you have no intellectual disposition to even make an effort to check if a certain information is playing to your biases.
“Most the the ‘they could have won’ alternate scenarios essentially rely on the Nazis not being Nazis.”
Precisely.
Harry Jones: ‘I look after my needs, and I respect anyone else who looks after his own needs. Anyone who doesn’t look after his own needs deserves to end up in the gutter.”
There’s more to it. I’m not getting contracts and other business opportunities because the courts and legislation are giving it away to other tribes. Meanwhile, my tribal cohorts are encouraging me to be magnanimous and embrace the suck.
Harry Jones says, “Remember: we’re all in this separately. We’ll have a better chance of getting off the island if we kill Gilligan.”
Your advice is incredibly stupid. Gilligan is Skipper’s little buddy, and if you kill him Skipper being, (in the fake TV world), much more masculine will kill you. So your advice is…stupid. It’s not only stupid it’s…very stupid. Like really, really stupid.
“Only weak people need a strong leader, because they don’t know how to band together without one. This applies especially when times get tough.”
Once again your advice is stupid AND wrong. When Men get together or Women a large percentage of the time they size each other up and gather relatively a score on who is more likely to have the best plan. Once this sort of jostling about for power or influence shakes out and people decide then having one leader, even if not perfect, can channel the energy of a great number of people. This gets things done. Not always perfectly but I bet if you get together any group you will see people judge fairly good even if not knowledgeable about others. Random people can size people up in a very competent manner. Where these things go bad is when people are appointed or are chosen at a distance. They of course turn into assholes a good majority of the time.
You see this all the time on reality survival shows and in real life(Meaning you must not have much of a life if you have never observed this). Where there’s a lot of back biting nothings gets done but over time people who have the skills get people to follow them, work with them and things get done.
It’s not always black or White. Sometimes you see specialties arise where certain task one person may be better and others give up power to that person related to that task.
This works. All your advice is silly assed academic type make believe advice where everyone is some perfectly rational group. Like Lake Woebegone where every child is above average. The real world doesn’t work that way. Hierarchy gets things done.
Judging from your advice you are not a serious person but one of those “ism” type people that believes some sort of voodoo is the only way things get done like, Capitalism, Communism, Libertarianism and any other number of ism‘s they tell us are the only way to accomplish things.
Lucklucky says, “So you believe that Soviet Union would attack with no intelligence on enemy troops dispositions.”
I didn’t say that. You completely made that up. I haven’t even hinted at such a thought. I specifically said that Stalin ignored the intelligence he got on German troop movements. Here are the exact words I used: “The messages from the front and intelligence about troop movements were constantly warning about an attack but they were ignored.”
You are lying and once again your arguments are so pitifully weak that you have to make up things to try and pretend that you have any validity at all. It’s pathetic. Keep it up, eventually every time someone sees anything you write they will immediately think, “him again with his made up shit”.
Lucklucky says, “Basically you have no intellectual disposition to even make an effort to check if a certain information is playing to your biases.”
HAHAHA at least I make some effort instead of just making shit up like you.
I’d love to play cards with you. I would show my weak two of a kind hand and you would wave around your nonexistent made up flush in the air that didn’t exist except in your make believe world. I would win. You would lose.
Maybe you’re a fan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n92Rnq7olrQ
I want to make clear I actually consider Mr. Rodgers a GREAT MAN. A Man who symbolizes some of the greatness of White people. While this sort thinking gets us into trouble at times. The empathy and compassion he shows is one of the greatest gifts of humanity.
Harry Jones says, “Still trying to figure out whether you hate Jews or admire them. You keep paying them compliments phrased as invective.”
I think he’s referring to me. I bet some segment of the population here will understand when I reply, “I believe this says a lot more about you than you would like people to know.”
Kill Gilligan, then kill Skipper if he makes a fuss. Enablers must be sacrificed.
Let’s be honest. He’s not much of a leader or much of a navigator. Three-hour tour my ass. Let the Professor captain the raft.
“if not for the courage of the fearless crew the Minnow would be lost”
Harry Jones advice,”kill the crew”.
Sam, I don’t go by press releases or theme songs. It’s all spin.
Nobody’s perfect, but there is a certain segment of the human race that screws up repeatedly. Throw them overboard. We are all in this separately.
“…Sam, I don’t go by press releases or theme songs. It’s all spin…”
YOUR the one who brought Gilligan, not me. It didn’t really work out for you, the killing Gilligan notion, so now you say…let’s just forget all about that.
It’s called an extended metaphor, Sam.
“but there is a certain segment of the human race that screws up repeatedly. Throw them overboard.”
Yes.