A big market will develop for speeding ecommerce to and from suburban warehouses long before air taxis are considered safe

Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Beta Technologies is valued at a billion dollars. Its Alia electric aircraft was not designed for passengers:

But Clark designed Alia primarily as a cargo aircraft, betting that a big market will develop for speeding ecommerce to and from suburban warehouses long before air taxis are considered safe to allow over city streets.

“We’re actually going to win at the passenger game because by the time others are doing passenger missions we will have thousands of aircraft, millions of flight hours and a safe, reliable, vetted design,” says the 41-year-old Clark, whose company is based in his hometown of Burlington, Vermont.

Clark is also spooling up what he thinks will be a lucrative second business: charging stations for electric aircraft of all types that he plans to dot around the country to create the aviation equivalent of Tesla’s supercharger network. There are nine up and running already, in a line from Vermont to Arkansas, with another 51 under construction or in the permitting process. Most will contain banks of used batteries from Alia aircraft, removed when their capacity has declined about 8%, giving them a profitable second life while Beta sells Alia owners replacement packs at about a half a million a pop. Equipping the charging stations with battery storage will avoid the need for expensive upgrades to the local power grid: Clark’s plan is for them to fill slowly at off-peak times, while unneeded power can be sold back at peak to utilities.

Alia Electric Aircraft

Beta aims to start delivering UPS’ first 10 aircraft in 2024 — assuming it wins safety certification for Alia by then from the Federal Aviation Administration. If not, the U.S. Air Force could end up fielding Alia first: Beta has won contracts worth $43.6 million to test out Alia for military use. In May, Alia became the first electric aircraft to win airworthiness approval from the Air Force for manned flight.

Beta says Alia’s bulbous cabin will be able to carry 600 pounds of payload, including the pilot, a maximum 250 nautical miles — at least 100 miles farther than any competitors that have prototypes in the air — or up to 1,250 pounds for 200 miles with one of the five battery packs removed. Clark expects FAA reserve requirements to restrict flights to 125 miles.

But given Alia’s high price — roughly double a similarly sized new Cessna Grand Caravan and up to five times the used planes that dominate small cargo fleets — Beta and UPS know Alia will only make economic sense if it flies a lot. That will require a radical reshaping of delivery networks away from the longtime hub and spoke pattern under which cargo planes typically make just one roundtrip per day, funneling packages from a local airport to a sorting center. Instead, they envision Alia flying directly from one UPS warehouse to another — cutting out truck trips as well as plane flights — and eventually straight to large customers. Frequent flying will allow savings as lower operating costs kick in. Beta promises 90% savings on fuel and cheaper maintenance due to the fewer parts of electric propulsion systems — plus a fat 35% reduction if computers eventually bump pilots from the cockpit altogether.

I was expecting cargo drones by now.


  1. Gavin Longmuir says:

    “Beta and UPS know Alia will only make economic sense if it flies a lot.”

    How can Alia planes fly a lot when they have to spend long times recharging their batteries? Especially if they have to wait for low-use off peak times.

    If there is a market for small cargo planes to fly a lot, then electric would seem to be at a severe competitive disadvantage with respect to liquid hydrocarbon fueled planes.

    It would be interesting to learn how the economics of electric planes are being impacted by subsidies and mandates.

  2. Irwin Corey says:

    “I was expecting cargo drones by now.”

    Sorry! The lifestyle you ordered is currently out of stock.

  3. Sam J. says:

    Gavin Longmuir says, “How can Alia planes fly a lot when they have to spend long times recharging their batteries? Especially if they have to wait for low-use off peak times.”

    They charge batteries during off-peak, and THOSE batteries charge the planes quickly. I expect no more than an hour for a charge.

    Fuel costs of electricity are way cheaper than aircraft fuel. Even if thermodynamically it’s a wash or the electricity is worse assuming fossil fuels.

    Here’s a link comparing Tesla auto fuel cost to gasoline; it’s about 25% of the gasoline cost, and this is in California, where the electricity prices are much higher.


    Fuel costs are THE big cost in planes.

    Looking at the cost of solar in reasonably sunny areas compared to coal-fired plants. Solar is a lot cheaper if you can use it where the panels are. Solar would be perfect for airports with utility back up.

    I’m not at all sure what the resistance to solar some people have is. It’s not just a hippy-dippy thing, or it’s not to me. I see solar as localizing power and providing independence.


  4. Gavin Longmuir says:

    Sam J: “I’m not at all sure what the resistance to solar some people have is.”

    It is not resistance of solar power per se, it is resistance to the forcing by subsidies & mandates of solar power into functions for which it is unsuitable.

    Solar power today is a parasite on a working system. Solar power suffers from serious weather, diurnal, and seasonal variations in power output — outpout which drops to zero at times when demand is highest.
    If solar power had to carry the necessary costs of full 24/7 rotating spare back up (or of gargantuan undefined dangerous energy storage), the true economics would show solar power to be a non-starter.

    There are niche uses where solar power makes sense. For example, the oil industry uses solar power for data collection & transmission on remote well sites.

    And let’s not forget the massive environmental impacts and energy demands of manufacturing those solar panels, and the unreasonably large requirements for land area.

    Solar electric generation is a useful technology in the right place. There simply are not so many places where it makes sense.

  5. Sam J. says:

    Gavin Longmuir says,”…Solar power today is a parasite on a working system. Solar power suffers from serious weather, diurnal, and seasonal variations in power output — output which drops to zero at times when demand is highest…”

    Here fixed it for you

    “…oil power due to the swing supply function of the Middle East is a parasite on a perpetual working system, the Sun. Variations in the behavior of mad Men running this supply function make it extremely unreliable. At any time the supply could drop to zero shooting prices up so high that the whole economy could collapse. Depending on petroleum supplies full 24/7 in perpetuity is asking for trouble. There are several analyses that say the supplies are far more limited than publically known and that if we do not have a local back up in solar power we could one day be rushing to replace oil power with solar power, Using this time wisely now while not under the gun from falling petroleum supplies to switch to solar and build the technology for batteries and flywheels while we can is the only responsible action…”

    The brisk sales of electric cars I believe is based on this notion that the oil supply is not safe. I don’t think people may even be directly buying them for this reason, but it could very well be that their subconscious is working on them to do this. Most do not articulate this need for surety in their power supply but act on it anyway.

    Much like aggregate guesses of a person’s weight tend to be very accurate with a lot of people guessing. People are buying electric to forgo petroleum supply panic.

    To move this along faster we should more directly subsidize battery technology and especially flywheels.

    I have done some cost accounting here in other comments on flywheels based on actual cost and the known fact that most manufactured goods in quantity can be built for around 10% over the cost of the raw materials. At that price point the cost of storing solar could crush the cost of coal-fired plants, the cheapest electricity made (omitting hydro). Combine this with distributed wind power which works well in areas with little Sun you have a robust system.

  6. Sam J. says:

    Gavin Longmuir’s response to petroleum panic: “Let them drink oil”.

  7. Gavin Longmuir says:


    Please get back to me when you see the first report of a solar panel being manufactured using nothing but solar power as an input.

    Make sure it covers the whole manufacturing chain, including mining the raw materials, manufacturing the steel & cement for the support structures, transportation & construction. And throw in the manufacturing of the batteries or other energy storage (Danger!) devices necessary for 24/7 reliability.

    Solar has a place in the energy mix, a niche place.

    As an aside, back in 1956 a geologist called Marion King Hubbert laid out the Peak Oil story, but pointed out there is nothing to worry about — we have nuclear power.

    Here we are, almost 70 years later, and his prognosis is still true. We could provide the whole world, all 7 Billion people, with a First World living standard and reliable 24/7 power using proven nuclear energy. Instead, we are wasting huge amounts of irreplaceable resources on windmills and solar panels.

    The human race is dumb!

  8. Jim says:

    The nice thing about solar panels is total day-to-day energy independence from the gleeful oil cartel hand-rubbers and the freaks who run your friendly municipal corporation’s grid.

  9. David Foster says:

    Jim, if someone want total independence via solar, then he needs to disconnect totally from the grid, and not expect it to be there for him when the solar output is low for a substantial period. Otherwise, he is being subsidized by the capital costs which are incurred to support his peak demand, even though he rarely uses it.

  10. Sam J. says:


    Please get back to me when you see the first report of a solar panel being manufactured using nothing but solar power as an input…”

    I’m back the whole entire coal, petroleum, etc. system is based on the Sun. It’s an alternate storage mechanism.

    Now some may say I may contradict myself a little here. I am not one of those that believes that we are next week or whatever running out of oil. I think a bunch of it is primordial and much of the rest is from bacteria. There’s a lot of it but none the less it is limited in easily accessible forms. Burning coal releases a huge amount of raidoactive waste and makes carcigens that are active mostly forever.

    I am not in any way opposed to nuclear but I think for individuals and their houses solar is better. And I see no problem with people using solar to feed the grid during peak times when needed and draw from it at other times. This works for both the consumer and the power company.

  11. Gavin Longmuir says:

    Sam: “I’m back the whole entire coal, petroleum, etc. system is based on the Sun. It’s an alternate storage mechanism.”

    So burning coal is using solar power? That makes sense. Coal is Green!

    (OK, I am joking. Although that does make as much sense as the foolish solar advocates who ignore the massive energy & environmental impacts of mining materials, transporting them, and processing them. They ignore all that, along with the abuse of African children in cobalt mines and Mongolian children around polluted rare earth mines.)

  12. Sam J. says:

    Gavin Longmuir says, “They ignore all that, along with the abuse of African children in cobalt mines and Mongolian children around polluted rare earth mines.”

    You keep repeating this when told many times that this is false. All new batteries do not use this. Yet you repeat like some sort of chant or bead counting to ward off evil.

  13. Gavin Longmuir says:


    You desperately want to believe — in solar cells, windmills, batteries, flywheels. That is understandable, but beliefs need to be consistent with facts.

    Facts are at the moment that solar cells, windmill generators, batteries, even flywheels all need lots of mined minerals including varying amounts of lithium, cobalt, rare earths — not to mention others such as iron and manganese.

    Even nuclear fission, which is today the only fully scalable dependable 24/7 energy source to replace fossil fuels, requires a lot of those same mineral resources.

    Deny it if you want, but those are the facts.

  14. Sam J. says:

    “You desperately want to believe…”

    No, facts are facts. You desperately want to believe that nuclear is the only way to power things but I don’t believe that. I have no problem with nuclear power but like cheaper alternatives for individual power for houses and most transportation. For this solar is much cheaper right now.

    You must live in the city and think all power lines just magically appear. Have you ever seen the price of power run to a house if you do not live in a suburb or the city? It’s outrageous. Really expensive.

    I want White people to disperse away from the cities and the evil forces residing there controlling them.

    All the scary talk about “minerals”??? As if “minerals” were some exotic thing only found in virgins eyelashes (hard to find those) but that’s not where we get “minerals”.

    It’s silly. Solar cells are made mostly of sand. And I’ve told you, over and over, the new battery cells don’t require cobalt.

    There is no problem with lithium supplies though we could use flywheels made from carbon. And you bring up Iron??? Like we’re going to run out of Iron?

    And if you don’t like flywheels there’s always carbon batteries and solid state sodium batteries. Maybe you think we will run out of sodium also?

    I only reply to these sort of things so people will see how absurd your comments are.

  15. Gavin Longmuir says:

    Sam J: “Solar cells are made mostly of sand.”

    Operative word there is “made”, i.e. mined and manufactured and transported and erected using energy that did not come from solar power.

    And if we set aside the mandates & subsidies which affect the money price, most solar panels never generate as much energy as was used to make them in the first place. A net loss of energy.

    Academics have written books on the “entropy subsidy” from fossil fuels involved in so-called renewable energy.

    As for heading for the hills and going off-grid (except after the sun goes down), remember the Hemingway line “A man alone does not stand a chance”. The survivors will be the ones who work together and form a community.

  16. Sam J. says:

    “…mined and manufactured and transported and erected using energy that did not come from solar power….”

    Solar panel can generate more than four or five times the energy used to produce them. Not a bad deal.

    Oh and this

    “…the abuse of African children in cobalt mines and Mongolian children around polluted rare earth mines…”

    has been really bothering me until I realized that instead of having this evil stuff lying all around on the ground where children can accidentally eat it we are gathering it all up and putting it in nice safe containers. :)

  17. Gavin Longmuir says:

    “Solar panel can generate more than four or five times the energy used to produce them.”

    To be serious for a minute, we all need to be careful about system boundaries. There is lots of information floating around which is “accurate but misleading” — we all get caught from time to time.

    When some analysis says that a solar panel can generate more than four or five times the energy used to produce them, does that refer to the theoretical output of the actual output? Does it include only the energy used in direct manufacturing? Or does it also include the energy used in mining, transporting, and processing the required ores? Does it include the energy used to make the steel supports? Etc?

    Given the politicization of energy, a lot of the reported figures are rather vague about what system boundaries they have assumed. Caveat emptor.

  18. Sam J. says:

    “Solar panel can generate more than four or five times the energy used to produce them.”

    Gavin Longmuir says,”…To be serious for a minute, we all need to be careful about system boundaries…”

    If it’s only double, which I doubt anyone with common sense would not allow, that’s still 100% better. If someone told you could make a guaranteed extra 100% on your investment would you turn them down? So where are your “boundaries”? 100% profits, 200%” 300″…

    I was looking for one of Jim Stones pages on nuclear and found this page with some nice pump jack pictures that you can use for wallpaper.


  19. Gavin Longmuir says:

    Sam, be serious! If solar power was so wildly economic, governments would be taxing Big Sun — not subsidizing it. And utility companies would be installing solar power willingly, not because they are forced to do so by political mandates. And customers utility bills would be going down as solar power installations increased.

    None of that is happening. Draw your own conclusion.

  20. Sam J. says:

    People can hate on Tesla all they want but only with Tesla’s can you get little White girls to say “PUNCH IT CHEWIE” and scream.


  21. Sam J. says:

    Gavin Longmuir says, “Sam, you desperately want to believe — in solar cells, windmills, batteries, flywheels. That is understandable, but beliefs need to be consistent with facts.”

    All my beliefs are based on the economics of the situation. Most energy is controlled by Oligarchs and of course they will try to skin everyone short of expiration. They can’t help themselves. Gavin Longmuir wants to pretend that nuclear will be different. No it will be just the same but more so as it will be more concentrated. More monopolized.

    So far they have purposely damaged the viability of nuclear by banning fuel reprocessing and stopping research on molten salt reactors. I expect this was not an accident.

    What this means that there will be a great deal of profit in going around them and not using their overpriced energy. As the tech price comes down and the huge demand to get out from under the thumb of the energy monopolies increases other avenues will happen. As the Sun comes up every day and is free…well that’s it. Doesn’t take a genius to see this.

    CATL’s new SODIUM battery will solve the world’s energy problems


    Ok they’ve got it now. The largest battery manufacturer in the world has started producing sodium batteries. It will probably take about five years for widespread use. They will be best for grid power and they will be used in low cost cars with less range.

    They’re not as good as lithium but the price of sodium is ridiculously low. They say these will be 30% cheaper. I reason that’s to get back research cost because the actual cost of the materials is going to be miniscule. As soon as others find a way to get around their patents, and they will, then they will be under pressure to cut cost even further.

    Sometimes just knowing something can be done is half the battle.

    I predict in 8 years the price of solar will plummet. If the new solar cell tech proves out, and it likely will, then it could even go so low that the power companies start going bankrupt in 10 years or so. I expect the politicians will tax solar to try and prop them up and many of them, politicians, will lose their jobs when they do.

    I still say that someone with a pile of cash and techno smarts could clean up with flywheels. I showed the numbers which are straight up arithmetic and you can get super cheap batteries at ridiculously low prices. It may be that those who are seeing this sodium battery cost and wondering what to do to compete will look around and “light goes on” FLYWHEELS. The key thing about flywheels is that chemical reactions are really tricky and can have unexplained reactions. A bit of art and wizardry but flywheels are straight mechanics so if you design it right you could count on it likely working with way less surprises. It befuddles me that they have not taken this up already with the newer high strength low cost fibers which have also gone way down in price.

    Gavin Longmuir says, “Sam, be serious! If solar power was so wildly economic, governments would be taxing Big Sun — not subsidizing it.”

    “Elon Musk trashes California’s ‘bizarre’ solar tax proposal”


    Gavin Longmuir goes on about “mining” and “minerals and blah, blah but the present situation means mining stupendous amounts of coal. Stringing electrical wires all over the place using a vast amount of land and material with loses in each part of the infrastructure. Compare that to the amount of material in a solar panel that once built last for at least twenty years and will still perform at a lower level of efficiency for many, many more years. Compare the much, much less materials needed for electrical connections if you have this stuff on your roof.

    If you look at the energy cost of expensive roofs of slate, iron or ceramic I bet the total energy cost compared to a solar tile is not really all that far off from each other but the solar tile will produce the vast if not all the energy needed instead of just keeping water out of the house. The efficiencies just bundle up so high that it’s hard to stop it. You will see there’s really no comparison at all. Not that I have problems with coal mining, but solar is cheaper and ultimately strips the monopolist of power to electro-rape us.

  22. Sam J. says:

    You didn’t read the link.

    At the link, “California’s Net Energy Metering (NEM) program has enabled 1.3 million customers to install roughly 10,000 megawatts of customer-sited renewable generation, almost all of which is rooftop solar.”

    10,000 megawatts in one State is not nothing and as the price comes down it will expand even faster.

    Solar is not really a utility type thing. It’s distributed and it will hollow out the power companies over time.

    And in fact notice people the Jewish way he argues. Never acknowledging anything. Never reading anything just telling us, this is so.

    Nothing has changed. Not a thing. Guess who said this.

    “But a Jew could never be parted from his opinions.

    The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn’t help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn’t help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn’t remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

    Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

    I didn’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.”

    So, yes, I understand what you are doing.

  23. Gavin Longmuir says:

    Sam J.: “And in fact notice people the Jewish way he argues.”

    Sam, get help! Filling your mind with hatred is a sad waste of a life.

  24. Sam J. says:

    “Sam, get help! Filling your mind with hatred is a sad waste of a life.”

    HAHHHHAHAA Jews complaining about hate. People who say things like,

    • The Jew is to say on Purim Day: « Cursed be Haman, blessed be Mordechai; cursed be Seresh, blessed be Esther: cursed be all non-Jews, blessed be all Jews. » (Orach Chaim, 660, 16.)
    • Theft, robbery and rape of a beautiful woman and similar deeds are forbidden to every gentile toward another gentile and also toward a Jew, but they are allowed to a Jew against a non-Jew. (Sanhedrin, 57 a; also Aboda Zara, 13 b.)
    • A heretic gentile you may kill outright with your own hands. (Aboda Zara, 4b.)
    • Those who do not own the Torah, must all be killed. Whoever has power to kill them, let him kill them openly with the sword, if not let him use artifices until they are all done away with. (Choschen ha-Mischpat, 425, 5.)
    • If a Jew has a suit with a non-Jew, you (Jewish judge) will take the Jew’s side as far as possible, according to the laws of the gentiles, you will take the Jew’s side and say to the gentile: Thus it is according to your law. If neither of these alternatives is possible, then you must cheat. (Baba Kama, 113 a.)
    • It is allowed to cheat a gentile and take usury trom him. (Baba Mezia, 61 a.)
    • God has commanded us to take usury trom the gentile and lend him only when he consents to repay with usury, in order that we do not create profit for him, even if there accrued no profit to us. (Sepher Mizwoth, 73 a.)
    • A thing lost by a gentile may not only be kept by the man who found it, but it is even forbidden to give it back to him. (Choschen ha-Mischpat, 159, 1.)
    • A Jew may rob a gentile, that is, he may cheat him over a bill if unlikely to be detected. (Choschen ha-Mischpat, 348, 1.)
    • You are human beings but the nations of the world are not human beings, but beasts. (Baba Mecia, 114,6.)
    • On the house of the goy one looks as on a fold of cattle. (Tosefta, Erubin, viii.)
    • The estates of the goy are like wilderness, who first settles in them has a right to them. (Baba Batra, 54, b.)
    • The property of the goys is like a thing without a master. (Schulchan Aruch: Choschen ha-Mischpat, 156,5.)
    • Who took an oath in the presence of goys, the robbers, and the custom-house officer, is not responsible. (Tosefta Szebnot, 11.)
    • A human form is only given to those who are not Jews in order that the Jews may not be waited upon by beasts. (Schene-tuchoth-habberith.)
    • If a Jew can deceive idolaters by making them think he is a follower of their cult, it is permitted to do so. (Yore De’ah, 157,2.)
    • One should and must make false oath, when the goyim ask if our books contain anything against them. Then we are bound to state on oath that there is nothing like that. (Szaalot-Utszabot. The Book of Jore Dia, 17.)
    • Every goy who studies Talmud, and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die. (Sanhedrin, 59 a, Aboda Zara, 8¬6, Szagiga, 13.)
    • To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all the Jews … (Book of Libbre David, 37.)

    The Jew … Judaizes … he provokes religious indifference, but he also imposes on those whose faith he destroys, his own concept of the world, of morality, and of human life … The Jews detests the spirit of the nation in the midst of which they live.

    Bernard Lazare, Antisemitism

    We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own.

    Maurice Samuel, You Gentiles (1924)

    Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.

    Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.

    Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, reported in Jerusalem Post, October 10, 2010. Yosef was the former Sephardi Chief Rabbi in the Jewish state, and later the spiritual leader of the Knesset party Shas. He was known to be an important authority on Jewish law. When he died last year, hundreds of thousands of Israelis attended his funeral.

    If every simple cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is a part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA.

    If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value. There is something infinitely more holy and unique about Jewish life than non-Jewish life.

    Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Jewish Week, April 26, 1996

    Any trial based on the assumption that Jews and goyim are equal is a total travesty of justice.

    Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, June 6, 1989

    Here in the Land of Israel, an Arab hos no right to exist. [The Jewish terrorist Baruch] Goldstein’s deed [killing 29 Muslims] constitutes a fulfillment of a number of com-mandments of Jewish law…[including] taking revenge on non-Jews.

    Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Ha’aretz, Israel, November 05, 2003

    I am sorry not only about dead Arabs but also about dead flies.

    Rabbi Moshe Levinger, cited in Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel by Israel Shahak

    The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews–all of them in all different levels–is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.

    Rabbi Avraham Yitzhak Kook, once Chief Rabbi in Palestine, cited in Shahak, Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel

    Kill [even] the good among the Gentiles.

    Rabbi Shimon ben Yochai, quoted in Mechilta Midrash

    The white race is the cancer of human history.

    Susan Sontag (Rosenblatt), Partisan Review, Winter 1967

    Treason to whiteness is loyalty to humanity.

    The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition other than from committed white supremacists.

    We intend to keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females too, until the social construct known as ‘the white race’ is destroyed, not ‘deconstructed’ but destroyed.

    Noel Ignatiev, Harvard Magazine, Sep-Oct 2002

    Accordingly, if we see an idolater (gentile) being swept away or drowning in the river, we should not help him. If we see that his life is in danger, we should not save him.

    Maimonides, in Mishnah Torah

    Gentile souls are of a completely different and inferior order. They are totally evil, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Their material abundance derives from supernal refuse. Indeed, they themselves derive from refuse, which is why they are more numerous than the Jews.

    Schneur Zalman of Liadi, founder of Chabad-Lubavitch

    These are the sort of people lecturing us on hate.

    And notice in the first place I didn’t say a word about hate. This is all mental projection.

    I talked about methods of propaganda and ways to dishonestly weasel around factual arguments. So now if you are lied to or people attempt to deceive you, and you notice…it’s hate.

    See how this works. It’s always the poor Jews no matter what they do.

    This is another method used. In fact it’s you that is showing hate when you attack me for “hatred” when what I am doing is showing tactical propaganda tactics to deceive people.
    Instead of attacking me why not explain how you came about the idea to use such tactics?

    Showing people that things should not be done a certain way or that some things are factually untrue is hate to you.

    Let’s have an equivalent scenario. A Man’s Son shows up to the dinner table without washing his hands. The Father says,”Son go wash your hands you can’t come to the table with dirty hands”.

    Gavin Longmuir…”He hates his Son, he hates his Son”.

  25. Isegoria says:

    This is not the place for anti- (or pro-) Semitic arguments. Let’s let it go, guys.

  26. Sam J. says:

    If you notice, I never bring this stuff up until the gas-lighting starts. Maybe not 100% but I think I’m fairly consistent about this.

    I’m fully willing to stick to persuasive facts but after a while when I detect the snake shifting propaganda mode in full effect I know that no matter what logic I use it will never matter, so I directly point this out.

    When this constant shifty stuff goes on, blaming the Arabs for 9-11, all this constant gas-lighting, It’s purpose is to destroy “logic” and the “truth”. If I wanted gas-lighting I would just turn on the TV.

    My response to this sort stuff is to comment facts. Not suppositions. Not opinions, like the people maligning me. Straight up facts that can be checked by anyone. My goal in this to get them to stop the gas-lighting. To stop calling me names. To stop allowing them to shift discussion into their “STATEMENTS” with no backing, no logic, nothing but their holy declaration and show exactly what they are doing.

    Why should people put up with this constant drip of propaganda maligning White people? I don’t know so I answer them back by showing their actions and their actual quotes.

    Now this gets people in a tizzy but they said it. Their actions are their own. I didn’t make them up.

    One of the reasons we are in such poor shape today is we allowed these people to run all over us and not point out their behavior out of politeness and this is not working for us.

    For me, don’t act dishonest and shifty and I won’t point it out.

  27. Scott says:

    Well, that escalated quickly.

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