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	<title>Comments on: Robert Harris’s Fatherland takes place in an alternate 1964, where the Nazis won</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: T. Beholder</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3734242</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Beholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3734242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isegoria says: &lt;blockquote&gt;…and the friend says “Who’s Hitler?”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Indeed. 

Britain 1.0 suffers from overexertion and senility, Britain 2.0 emerges from the new US revolution all eager to cut the imperial cake, Stalin runs naked military build-up while on “existentially hostile” terms with Brits 1.0 and plays an agreeable fellow for Brits 2.0… Germany is sour due to Versailles, the rest of Europe is chafing, tired or sometimes (Italy) both…

But some people seem to still believe there was any way this mess could avoid going up in flames — if only that one failed artist with a bad case of brain syphilis did not sniff all the fairy dust.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isegoria says:<br />
<blockquote>…and the friend says “Who’s Hitler?”</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed. </p>
<p>Britain 1.0 suffers from overexertion and senility, Britain 2.0 emerges from the new US revolution all eager to cut the imperial cake, Stalin runs naked military build-up while on “existentially hostile” terms with Brits 1.0 and plays an agreeable fellow for Brits 2.0… Germany is sour due to Versailles, the rest of Europe is chafing, tired or sometimes (Italy) both…</p>
<p>But some people seem to still believe there was any way this mess could avoid going up in flames — if only that one failed artist with a bad case of brain syphilis did not sniff all the fairy dust.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3734082</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2025 20:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3734082</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just &lt;a href=&quot;https://x.com/ElonBachman/status/1880286322985955531&quot;&gt;stumbled across&lt;/a&gt; this joke: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;A guy is complaining to his friend about how his time machine malfunctioned so instead of killing baby Hitler he killed Woodrow Wilson, and the friend says &quot;Who&#039;s Hitler?&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just <a href="https://x.com/ElonBachman/status/1880286322985955531">stumbled across</a> this joke: </p>
<blockquote><p>A guy is complaining to his friend about how his time machine malfunctioned so instead of killing baby Hitler he killed Woodrow Wilson, and the friend says &#8220;Who&#8217;s Hitler?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732972</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking of Kipling, Poul Anderson said, “&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.isegoria.net/2017/12/the-worlds-work-and-the-men-and-machines-who-do-it/&quot;&gt;His influence pervades modern science fiction and fantasy writing&lt;/a&gt;”: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;John W Campbell, the magisterial editor who shaped the Golden Age of science fiction, considered Rudyard Kipling the first modern science fiction writer. Kipling, he explained, was the first to go beyond simply providing the reader with the essential background information needed to read his story. He was thinking here of “With the Night Mail”. When this pseudo-journalistic account of transatlantic dirigible traffic first appeared in 1905, the text was accompanied by weather advisories, classified advertisements, shipping notices, and a wide range of other snippets intended to suggest that the tale was in fact appearing in a magazine published in 2000. All this stage business was extraneous to the story, strictly speaking; but it did help to establish the setting.

Kipling had learned this trick in India. His original Anglo-Indian readership knew the customs and institutions and landscapes of British India at first hand. But when he began writing for a wider British and American audience, he had to provide his new readers with enough information for them to understand what was going on. In his earliest stories and verse he made liberal use of footnotes, but he evolved more subtle methods as his talent matured. A combination of outright exposition, sparingly used, and contextual clues, generously sprinkled through the narrative, offered the needed background. In &lt;em&gt;Kim&lt;/em&gt; and other stories of India he uses King James English to indicate that characters are speaking in Hindustani; this is never explained, but it gets the message across subliminally.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Kipling, Poul Anderson said, “<a href="https://www.isegoria.net/2017/12/the-worlds-work-and-the-men-and-machines-who-do-it/">His influence pervades modern science fiction and fantasy writing</a>”: </p>
<blockquote><p>John W Campbell, the magisterial editor who shaped the Golden Age of science fiction, considered Rudyard Kipling the first modern science fiction writer. Kipling, he explained, was the first to go beyond simply providing the reader with the essential background information needed to read his story. He was thinking here of “With the Night Mail”. When this pseudo-journalistic account of transatlantic dirigible traffic first appeared in 1905, the text was accompanied by weather advisories, classified advertisements, shipping notices, and a wide range of other snippets intended to suggest that the tale was in fact appearing in a magazine published in 2000. All this stage business was extraneous to the story, strictly speaking; but it did help to establish the setting.</p>
<p>Kipling had learned this trick in India. His original Anglo-Indian readership knew the customs and institutions and landscapes of British India at first hand. But when he began writing for a wider British and American audience, he had to provide his new readers with enough information for them to understand what was going on. In his earliest stories and verse he made liberal use of footnotes, but he evolved more subtle methods as his talent matured. A combination of outright exposition, sparingly used, and contextual clues, generously sprinkled through the narrative, offered the needed background. In <em>Kim</em> and other stories of India he uses King James English to indicate that characters are speaking in Hindustani; this is never explained, but it gets the message across subliminally.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732970</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kipling’s “As Easy as A.B.C.” presents &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.isegoria.net/2008/03/as-easy-as-a-b-c/&quot;&gt;a future that has lived through populist democracy and mob rule&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kipling’s “As Easy as A.B.C.” presents <a href="https://www.isegoria.net/2008/03/as-easy-as-a-b-c/">a future that has lived through populist democracy and mob rule</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Beholder</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732916</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Beholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jan 2025 03:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bruce says: &lt;blockquote&gt;If Faulkner was right, Western alt-history goes back to 1492.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Heh. Genres start long before they become fashionable as often as not.

The oldest detective stories AFAIK were parts of the Arabian Nights and even Oedipus Rex.

Kipling&#039;s &quot;As Easy as ABC&quot; (1912) was the sci-fi story in a style very distinct from early ones (whether Verne, Wells, or early pulp era) and closely resembling styles that dominated much later: exposition cut to bare necessity, more organic structure than Conundrum of The Week #14, neither focused on a single gimmick nor a &quot;10 foot LASER pole&quot; style conversion... oh, and it also introduced a gadget that later was dubbed Tractor Beam. For that matter, he had the impending wave of steampunk predicted (and preemptively mocked) back in 1894 in &quot;The King&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce says:<br />
<blockquote>If Faulkner was right, Western alt-history goes back to 1492.</p></blockquote>
<p>Heh. Genres start long before they become fashionable as often as not.</p>
<p>The oldest detective stories AFAIK were parts of the Arabian Nights and even Oedipus Rex.</p>
<p>Kipling&#8217;s &#8220;As Easy as ABC&#8221; (1912) was the sci-fi story in a style very distinct from early ones (whether Verne, Wells, or early pulp era) and closely resembling styles that dominated much later: exposition cut to bare necessity, more organic structure than Conundrum of The Week #14, neither focused on a single gimmick nor a &#8220;10 foot LASER pole&#8221; style conversion&#8230; oh, and it also introduced a gadget that later was dubbed Tractor Beam. For that matter, he had the impending wave of steampunk predicted (and preemptively mocked) back in 1894 in &#8220;The King&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732893</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Germans and the Japanese are very similar in many ways, and the Japanese ran their war economy mostly unmodified until Richard Werner arrived just in time to watch the Bank of Japan shiv the Ministry of Finance in the back. Had Germany prevailed, we would expect to see something analogous to or superior than Japanese development during the time period of 1945 to about 1985, less the feministic social aspects that the population controllers deliberately employ to suppress fertility to subreplacement rates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Germans and the Japanese are very similar in many ways, and the Japanese ran their war economy mostly unmodified until Richard Werner arrived just in time to watch the Bank of Japan shiv the Ministry of Finance in the back. Had Germany prevailed, we would expect to see something analogous to or superior than Japanese development during the time period of 1945 to about 1985, less the feministic social aspects that the population controllers deliberately employ to suppress fertility to subreplacement rates.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucklucky</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732891</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucklucky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jan 2025 21:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Robert Harris’s Fatherland makes Nazi German rule look an awful lot like Communist East German rule.&quot;

Socialisms...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Robert Harris’s Fatherland makes Nazi German rule look an awful lot like Communist East German rule.&#8221;</p>
<p>Socialisms&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732882</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jan 2025 17:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robert Harris’s &lt;em&gt;Fatherland&lt;/em&gt; makes Nazi German rule look an awful lot like Communist East German rule.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Harris’s <em>Fatherland</em> makes Nazi German rule look an awful lot like Communist East German rule.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732880</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jan 2025 16:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[German rule only looks good in comparison to banker rule, but it&#039;s more than enough to sustain fantasy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>German rule only looks good in comparison to banker rule, but it&#8217;s more than enough to sustain fantasy.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Beholder</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2025/01/robert-harriss-fatherland-takes-place-in-an-alternate-1964-where-the-nazis-won/comment-page-1/#comment-3732814</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Beholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jan 2025 00:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=52482#comment-3732814</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isegoria says: &lt;blockquote&gt;There are many, many alternate history stories about the Nazis winning World War 2.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Unsurprisingly. Seeing how it’s the birth of (now dying) New World Order, and what passes for its history is mostly nonsense to begin with. Smoke and mirrors of fairy tales by the Soviet Communists, fairy tales by the American Communists, overcompensation by the “Allies who also won” and puffs from Wehraboo smoking crack already overlap and easily mix into surreal shapes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isegoria says:<br />
<blockquote>There are many, many alternate history stories about the Nazis winning World War 2.</p></blockquote>
<p>Unsurprisingly. Seeing how it’s the birth of (now dying) New World Order, and what passes for its history is mostly nonsense to begin with. Smoke and mirrors of fairy tales by the Soviet Communists, fairy tales by the American Communists, overcompensation by the “Allies who also won” and puffs from Wehraboo smoking crack already overlap and easily mix into surreal shapes.</p>
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