Comments on: Nearly all of the major, durable powers fell into one of two categories https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/ From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small Wed, 27 May 2026 16:29:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.6.1 By: Lucklucky https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697209 Lucklucky Mon, 15 Jul 2024 03:33:11 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697209 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_nautical_science

]]> By: Lucklucky https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697205 Lucklucky Mon, 15 Jul 2024 03:09:45 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697205 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Diu

]]> By: Lucklucky https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697204 Lucklucky Mon, 15 Jul 2024 03:00:23 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697204 Going these world distances in a useful time meant a large knowledge of winds and currents and designing technology to exploit it, including ship design in a systematic way. It was not luck; it was science, which means it could be repeated and the arrival time more or less predicted.

]]> By: Lucklucky https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697203 Lucklucky Mon, 15 Jul 2024 02:51:58 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697203 So? That Is all coastal. Those are small boats not ships. They would not survive the Atlantic. The Portuguese needed ships that could got out at the middle of the ocean to get what are now called trade winds, which would make navigation in the shortest time possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta_do_mar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_winds

PS: I know the parau from Emilio Salgari Sandokan adventure books. Albeit in their alt-history 19th Century they transformed it into a warship with higher hull sides.

]]> By: Bruce https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697182 Bruce Sun, 14 Jul 2024 20:47:37 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697182 As coastal trade ships go, they reached the Red Sea from Malaysia. Pussy coastal craft? Or:

Indonesia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proa

In my opinions the brave and expert sailors of Europe just barely beat the brave and expert sailors of Southeast Asia.

Or I’m wrong.

]]> By: Lucklucky https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697084 Lucklucky Sun, 14 Jul 2024 03:14:38 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697084 “Southeast Asia was trading with the Red Sea ports for two thousand years before 1400. Indonesian ships were the fastest in the world, and Southeast Asia had gunpowder before Europe.”

Coastal trade ships, those were not oceanic.

]]> By: Lucklucky https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3697083 Lucklucky Sun, 14 Jul 2024 03:12:32 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3697083 “The Turks could have ventured into the Atlantic and discovered the New World, for all that would have meant.”

With what ships? They had galleys, Greek-Roman era tech. The Caravela and Nau changed everything.

]]> By: Bomag https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3696970 Bomag Sat, 13 Jul 2024 13:23:52 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3696970 ”The Turks could have ventured into the Atlantic…”

I’ve been told this had to wait for the invention of the keel, thus a self-reinforcing design that could stand the rigors of large waves. Coastal and Indian ocean ships weren’t much more than houses on a raft.

]]> By: Bruce https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3696916 Bruce Sat, 13 Jul 2024 03:24:57 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3696916 I think there was blue water Indian Ocean in the Monsoon travel Indian Ocean Red Sea Malisia, but if you tell me wrong I would be in your debt.

]]> By: Adar https://www.isegoria.net/2024/07/nearly-all-of-the-major-durable-powers-fell-into-one-of-two-categories/comment-page-1/#comment-3696887 Adar Fri, 12 Jul 2024 22:27:54 +0000 https://www.isegoria.net/?p=51686#comment-3696887 The Turks could have ventured into the Atlantic and discovered the New World, for all that would have meant. Their vessels were a combination of wind- and oar-powered. I am not sure about a size-comparison with the ships of Columbus but not much less I might assume.

Large-scale trans-oceanic blue water merchant marine wasn’t done until the Dutch Golden Age.

]]>