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	<title>Comments on: Most kids get very little out of school</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: McChuck</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630647</link>
		<dc:creator>McChuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Nov 2023 17:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Schooling should begin at age 8 and end at age 13.  In those 5 years, everything the average person needs to get out of general education can be taught and learned by 90% of the population.  (The lowest 10% will never learn, so don&#039;t bother everybody involved by trying.)

At age 13, most teenagers should enter into apprenticeships.  The top 10% could go on to high school, which exists explicitly as college prep.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schooling should begin at age 8 and end at age 13.  In those 5 years, everything the average person needs to get out of general education can be taught and learned by 90% of the population.  (The lowest 10% will never learn, so don&#8217;t bother everybody involved by trying.)</p>
<p>At age 13, most teenagers should enter into apprenticeships.  The top 10% could go on to high school, which exists explicitly as college prep.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630459</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2023 15:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630459</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To reiterate, almost all kids improve dramatically through the elementary years, improve a bit through the middle-school years, and improve very little after that — unless they’re in the college-bound top 10 percent.

High school does not seem to improve most kids’ performance — but almost anyone discussing this was in that top 10 percent and did learn through high school.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To reiterate, almost all kids improve dramatically through the elementary years, improve a bit through the middle-school years, and improve very little after that — unless they’re in the college-bound top 10 percent.</p>
<p>High school does not seem to improve most kids’ performance — but almost anyone discussing this was in that top 10 percent and did learn through high school.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Riet</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630405</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Riet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2023 08:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Au contraire I got a lot out of high school in the form of canings and strappings. (De la Salle Brothers God rot their souls.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Au contraire I got a lot out of high school in the form of canings and strappings. (De la Salle Brothers God rot their souls.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bomag</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630316</link>
		<dc:creator>Bomag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 17:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;”The great majority of children leave school able to read and write and do arithmetic at some level. They have some idea of science and history and how the political system is supposed to operate.”&lt;/i&gt;

True.  The point here is that kids get this organically; school does little to expand upon this.  You can put 25 yr olds in a room with professional educators, and the educators can&#039;t pick out the college grads from the grade school drop outs.

&lt;i&gt;”The main problem is that we are bringing in some 2 million illegal refugees each year, none of whom has any education relevant to our society, and almost all of whom are openly hostile to our system.”&lt;/i&gt;

Truer words never spoken.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>”The great majority of children leave school able to read and write and do arithmetic at some level. They have some idea of science and history and how the political system is supposed to operate.”</i></p>
<p>True.  The point here is that kids get this organically; school does little to expand upon this.  You can put 25 yr olds in a room with professional educators, and the educators can&#8217;t pick out the college grads from the grade school drop outs.</p>
<p><i>”The main problem is that we are bringing in some 2 million illegal refugees each year, none of whom has any education relevant to our society, and almost all of whom are openly hostile to our system.”</i></p>
<p>Truer words never spoken.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sykes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630300</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 14:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This analysis is utter nonsense. The great majority of children leave school able to read and write and do arithmetic at some level. They have some idea of science and history and how the political system is supposed to operate.

If that were not true, the whole economy and governmental system would collapsed long ago. So the mere fact the article was written, published, and read proves it is nonsense.

The main problem is that we are bringing in some 2 million illegal refugees each year, none of whom has any education relevant to our society, and almost all of whom are openly hostile to our system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This analysis is utter nonsense. The great majority of children leave school able to read and write and do arithmetic at some level. They have some idea of science and history and how the political system is supposed to operate.</p>
<p>If that were not true, the whole economy and governmental system would collapsed long ago. So the mere fact the article was written, published, and read proves it is nonsense.</p>
<p>The main problem is that we are bringing in some 2 million illegal refugees each year, none of whom has any education relevant to our society, and almost all of whom are openly hostile to our system.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bomag</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630272</link>
		<dc:creator>Bomag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 07:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;normsResearchStudy&lt;/i&gt;

Oh gawd; usual stuff we get from Ed Establishment:  systemic change blah blah blah; so much jargon you need a chainsaw; ten cents of value delivered by a hundred dollars of effort.

Can&#039;t even fill us in on their acronyms.  I&#039;ll assume MAP stands for Madly Advocating Persecution ;  NWEA stands for New World Evildoers Association.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>normsResearchStudy</i></p>
<p>Oh gawd; usual stuff we get from Ed Establishment:  systemic change blah blah blah; so much jargon you need a chainsaw; ten cents of value delivered by a hundred dollars of effort.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t even fill us in on their acronyms.  I&#8217;ll assume MAP stands for Madly Advocating Persecution ;  NWEA stands for New World Evildoers Association.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630254</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[School takes; it does not give.

There&#039;s more to life than books and paper tests, but school has little or nothing to do with learning, other than wasting prime learning years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>School takes; it does not give.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s more to life than books and paper tests, but school has little or nothing to do with learning, other than wasting prime learning years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gwern</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630223</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Uses adaptive testing for the norming: https://teach.mapnwea.org/impl/normsResearchStudy.pdf#page=31]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uses adaptive testing for the norming: <a href="https://teach.mapnwea.org/impl/normsResearchStudy.pdf#page=31" >https://teach.mapnwea.org/impl/normsResearchStudy.pdf#page=31</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bomag</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630220</link>
		<dc:creator>Bomag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2023 15:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;”The convoluted wording of legalisms grows up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other.”&lt;/i&gt;

We&#039;ve been trained to believe that if we are nice to people, they will be nice to us.  Ignores the base conflict and adversity inherent in life; especially between various groupings:  men/women; ethnicities; races.

Thus, we&#039;re told if we are nice to women and give them stuff, things will work out.  If we are nice to Palestinians, they will join us around the campfire, smoking the crackpipe.  Ditto for Jews.  If we quit being mean to George Floyd, all colors will bleed into one.

Can&#039;t seem to convey to people that this stuff doesn&#039;t matter; there will always be a pretext for violence.  If not a George Floyd, a Freddy Gray.  If not Freddy Gray, then we have to atone at maximum expense for not treating Sojourner Truth properly.  If not Sojourner Truth, then the various tribesmen circa 1619.  Etc. etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>”The convoluted wording of legalisms grows up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other.”</i></p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been trained to believe that if we are nice to people, they will be nice to us.  Ignores the base conflict and adversity inherent in life; especially between various groupings:  men/women; ethnicities; races.</p>
<p>Thus, we&#8217;re told if we are nice to women and give them stuff, things will work out.  If we are nice to Palestinians, they will join us around the campfire, smoking the crackpipe.  Ditto for Jews.  If we quit being mean to George Floyd, all colors will bleed into one.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t seem to convey to people that this stuff doesn&#8217;t matter; there will always be a pretext for violence.  If not a George Floyd, a Freddy Gray.  If not Freddy Gray, then we have to atone at maximum expense for not treating Sojourner Truth properly.  If not Sojourner Truth, then the various tribesmen circa 1619.  Etc. etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/11/most-kids-get-very-little-out-of-school/comment-page-1/#comment-3630145</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2023 20:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50661#comment-3630145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;…but one 7th-grader per couple classrooms (98th percentile) has the fundamental skills of a college-bound senior (90th percentile).&quot;

Now meditate on the unfathomably sorry fate of the 99.9th-percentile second-grader.

Raze every public school and salt the earth that nothing may grow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;…but one 7th-grader per couple classrooms (98th percentile) has the fundamental skills of a college-bound senior (90th percentile).&#8221;</p>
<p>Now meditate on the unfathomably sorry fate of the 99.9th-percentile second-grader.</p>
<p>Raze every public school and salt the earth that nothing may grow.</p>
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