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	<title>Comments on: Studying children in school is like studying orcas at Sea World</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2023 15:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Juvenile detention center &lt;i&gt;delenda est.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juvenile detention center <i>delenda est.</i></p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615883</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2023 04:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615883</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is the nearest political entity that collects the most taxes and has the most power where you live? Schools.

Politics is power, schools are the power of the system and the foundation of the current system&#039;s power, from the ground and the next generation up. 

The children are as relevant as slaves in the quarry pits of the ancients.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the nearest political entity that collects the most taxes and has the most power where you live? Schools.</p>
<p>Politics is power, schools are the power of the system and the foundation of the current system&#8217;s power, from the ground and the next generation up. </p>
<p>The children are as relevant as slaves in the quarry pits of the ancients.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: McChuck</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615843</link>
		<dc:creator>McChuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2023 13:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;Harvard’s David Perkins makes the case that much of what we regard as ‘intelligence’ is a matter of dispositions towards thinking.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Well, duh.  Another brilliant observation by an academician.  I must mark upon my calendar that a Harvard professor accidentally uttered a true statement.

Smart people think.  Stupid people don&#039;t.  Average people usually won&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Harvard’s David Perkins makes the case that much of what we regard as ‘intelligence’ is a matter of dispositions towards thinking.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Well, duh.  Another brilliant observation by an academician.  I must mark upon my calendar that a Harvard professor accidentally uttered a true statement.</p>
<p>Smart people think.  Stupid people don&#8217;t.  Average people usually won&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudo-Chrysostom</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615800</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudo-Chrysostom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2023 23:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615800</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If one wishes to invoke Chesterton&#039;s Fence, then the biggest social upheaval that tore down preexisting social superstructures left and right was the implementation of the child prison system in the first place, where groups of men who coincidentally all happened to be lawyers floated the unsubstantiated notion that having the bureaucracy kidnap people&#039;s children and send them to child prison would usher in felicity and enlightenment across all society.

They went to an academy - which is to say, a seminary - and so they though, make all of society a seminary; the whole of the human mass digested through the officially unofficial state church; through such an entity that would always and inevitably become such an entity, in the event of such a happenstance. 

It is nothing less - and nothing more - than men with priestly caste consciousness, seeking, consciously or unconsciously, to universalize that consciousness, universalize their own particular mode of engagement with Being, to all beings in general.

The past is a foreign country, and most people in 2023 are tourists. Their Dickensian mental images of what more civilized times and places were like come from the Wreckers who destroyed them to begin with.

The only thing an academy format can teach people is how to priest. This fact was in fact long understood for centuries, millennia. The first universities were all founded as religious institutions - and they have never stopped being religious institutions. In an academy setting a man can learn a priestly vocation, such lawyer, scribe, preacher, j*urnalist, et cetera. Literally any other kind of vocation though, no dice. No such edification takes place in reality, only cargo-cult larping posing as the vocation, to no good effect. 

No matter what &#039;major&#039; you take at whatever institution you sacrifice too, you will end up needing to learn how to actually do whatever your actual job is at whatever sphere you end up in anyways. The institution itself provides negative value in this respect.

It is telling how every time someone defends systematic internment of society in academies, it is always for reasons like &#039;networking&#039;, or &#039;socialization&#039;, or &#039;keeping potential criminals off the streets and under watch in prison&#039;; ie, things that all have little to nothing to do with *the academic format itself*, and could be better served without it getting in the way, and are in fact substantially undermined by it getting in the way. 

A humanoid being learns things by watching and working with someone or someones who knows that thing. This is why an academy can&#039;t teach anything except priestly vocations, because what you are watching is an academic do academics. 

And likewise why the destruction of apprenticeship as legally realized social technologies has resulted in mounting ignorance, incapacity, and inability to do what once could be done in pretty much every sector of industry in the occident. Such phenomena as &#039;child labour&#039; laws were the product of priestly factions seeking to usurp greater control over society from other parties that were theretofore incumbent; to gain authority over minds in their most impressionable stages, in order to impress them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one wishes to invoke Chesterton&#8217;s Fence, then the biggest social upheaval that tore down preexisting social superstructures left and right was the implementation of the child prison system in the first place, where groups of men who coincidentally all happened to be lawyers floated the unsubstantiated notion that having the bureaucracy kidnap people&#8217;s children and send them to child prison would usher in felicity and enlightenment across all society.</p>
<p>They went to an academy &#8211; which is to say, a seminary &#8211; and so they though, make all of society a seminary; the whole of the human mass digested through the officially unofficial state church; through such an entity that would always and inevitably become such an entity, in the event of such a happenstance. </p>
<p>It is nothing less &#8211; and nothing more &#8211; than men with priestly caste consciousness, seeking, consciously or unconsciously, to universalize that consciousness, universalize their own particular mode of engagement with Being, to all beings in general.</p>
<p>The past is a foreign country, and most people in 2023 are tourists. Their Dickensian mental images of what more civilized times and places were like come from the Wreckers who destroyed them to begin with.</p>
<p>The only thing an academy format can teach people is how to priest. This fact was in fact long understood for centuries, millennia. The first universities were all founded as religious institutions &#8211; and they have never stopped being religious institutions. In an academy setting a man can learn a priestly vocation, such lawyer, scribe, preacher, j*urnalist, et cetera. Literally any other kind of vocation though, no dice. No such edification takes place in reality, only cargo-cult larping posing as the vocation, to no good effect. </p>
<p>No matter what &#8216;major&#8217; you take at whatever institution you sacrifice too, you will end up needing to learn how to actually do whatever your actual job is at whatever sphere you end up in anyways. The institution itself provides negative value in this respect.</p>
<p>It is telling how every time someone defends systematic internment of society in academies, it is always for reasons like &#8216;networking&#8217;, or &#8216;socialization&#8217;, or &#8216;keeping potential criminals off the streets and under watch in prison&#8217;; ie, things that all have little to nothing to do with *the academic format itself*, and could be better served without it getting in the way, and are in fact substantially undermined by it getting in the way. </p>
<p>A humanoid being learns things by watching and working with someone or someones who knows that thing. This is why an academy can&#8217;t teach anything except priestly vocations, because what you are watching is an academic do academics. </p>
<p>And likewise why the destruction of apprenticeship as legally realized social technologies has resulted in mounting ignorance, incapacity, and inability to do what once could be done in pretty much every sector of industry in the occident. Such phenomena as &#8216;child labour&#8217; laws were the product of priestly factions seeking to usurp greater control over society from other parties that were theretofore incumbent; to gain authority over minds in their most impressionable stages, in order to impress them.</p>
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		<title>By: Handle</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615779</link>
		<dc:creator>Handle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2023 18:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The funny thing is that despite all the perfectly legitimate and accurate criticisms that applied even as far back as when I was in them, I learned a lot in my public schools.  Am I normal, average person - ok not really.  And yeah, they were &quot;good schools&quot;.  And yeah, a lot of what I learned was lies and/or good for nothing.  But still.  It&#039;s not like my parents observing just my development would have had any reason to believe that I wasn&#039;t learning something, indeed, a lot.

On the other hand, I can&#039;t say the same about my own observations of kids in contemporary public schooling, which really does seem a few major steps down in this regard.  The overall model, process, structure, and basis for many of these criticisms was all there a long time ago, but something else has gotten much, much worse recently, and people are shooting at targets that, while valid, aren&#039;t the beast at close range charging at us at full speed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funny thing is that despite all the perfectly legitimate and accurate criticisms that applied even as far back as when I was in them, I learned a lot in my public schools.  Am I normal, average person &#8211; ok not really.  And yeah, they were &#8220;good schools&#8221;.  And yeah, a lot of what I learned was lies and/or good for nothing.  But still.  It&#8217;s not like my parents observing just my development would have had any reason to believe that I wasn&#8217;t learning something, indeed, a lot.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I can&#8217;t say the same about my own observations of kids in contemporary public schooling, which really does seem a few major steps down in this regard.  The overall model, process, structure, and basis for many of these criticisms was all there a long time ago, but something else has gotten much, much worse recently, and people are shooting at targets that, while valid, aren&#8217;t the beast at close range charging at us at full speed.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudo-Chrysostom</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615776</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudo-Chrysostom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2023 18:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“Grant me the leeway to assume that sitting in a classroom is less harmful to the child than performing menial and possibly dangerous work.”

Leeway not granted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Grant me the leeway to assume that sitting in a classroom is less harmful to the child than performing menial and possibly dangerous work.”</p>
<p>Leeway not granted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Riet</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615737</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Riet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2023 06:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I have said on these pages before, the primary purpose of schooling is day care. To understand the second objective requires understanding Chesterton&#039;s Fence, which Michael Strong, Freddie DeBoer and Bryan Caplan patently don&#039;t. It is simpler to demand that all children spend their days in school than to prevent businesses from employing child labor. Grant me the leeway to assume that sitting in a classroom is less harmful to the child than performing menial and possibly dangerous work.

At one time, a learner would not be promoted to the next grade without having passed something called a &quot;test&quot; or &quot;exam&quot; (yes I know that these are cancellable words but damn the torpedoes). Children neither literate nor numerate stayed in the same grade until they passed, or were rerouted to a special school, or achieved the age of school leaving. Somehow the terrible, tortuous, inefficient and ineffectual teaching methods of the past pumped out hundreds of thousands of literate and numerate graduates every year, and remember that this was before dumbing down became mandatory. The sheer mass and volume of bovine excrement produced by modern education socio-psychologists baffles the brain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have said on these pages before, the primary purpose of schooling is day care. To understand the second objective requires understanding Chesterton&#8217;s Fence, which Michael Strong, Freddie DeBoer and Bryan Caplan patently don&#8217;t. It is simpler to demand that all children spend their days in school than to prevent businesses from employing child labor. Grant me the leeway to assume that sitting in a classroom is less harmful to the child than performing menial and possibly dangerous work.</p>
<p>At one time, a learner would not be promoted to the next grade without having passed something called a &#8220;test&#8221; or &#8220;exam&#8221; (yes I know that these are cancellable words but damn the torpedoes). Children neither literate nor numerate stayed in the same grade until they passed, or were rerouted to a special school, or achieved the age of school leaving. Somehow the terrible, tortuous, inefficient and ineffectual teaching methods of the past pumped out hundreds of thousands of literate and numerate graduates every year, and remember that this was before dumbing down became mandatory. The sheer mass and volume of bovine excrement produced by modern education socio-psychologists baffles the brain.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudo-Chrysostom</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615733</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudo-Chrysostom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2023 06:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All that being said, he touches on a lot of points that are worth saying. Such as: the child prison systems being worse than useless; the importance of status hierarchies, and especially the intentional curation thereof, to what behaviors, modes of thought, and forms of being subjects will converge towards - which of course touches on something with implications that reach far beyond the subject of child rearing alone; the fact that any genuine transmission of tacit knowledge from one subject to another requires direct personal interrelationships between the subjects - which is why credentialism is the devil and the disappearance of apprenticeship as a social technology has resulted in unfathomable loss of understanding, lore, and know-how in basically every sphere of society under the sun with every generation for the past 70+ years; just to name the most pertinent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that being said, he touches on a lot of points that are worth saying. Such as: the child prison systems being worse than useless; the importance of status hierarchies, and especially the intentional curation thereof, to what behaviors, modes of thought, and forms of being subjects will converge towards &#8211; which of course touches on something with implications that reach far beyond the subject of child rearing alone; the fact that any genuine transmission of tacit knowledge from one subject to another requires direct personal interrelationships between the subjects &#8211; which is why credentialism is the devil and the disappearance of apprenticeship as a social technology has resulted in unfathomable loss of understanding, lore, and know-how in basically every sphere of society under the sun with every generation for the past 70+ years; just to name the most pertinent.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucklucky</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615715</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucklucky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2023 01:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I fully agree that intelligence can be increased by learning. But schools are not for that. School exists for equality, so mediocrity. It is more important to a school to decrease IQ than to increase it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully agree that intelligence can be increased by learning. But schools are not for that. School exists for equality, so mediocrity. It is more important to a school to decrease IQ than to increase it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pseudo-Chrysostom</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/07/studying-children-in-school-is-like-studying-orcas-at-sea-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3615711</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudo-Chrysostom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2023 23:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50308#comment-3615711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Strong weakens his point by using performance at chess as an example of cognitive antinomianism, as in more absolute terms chess is a highly simplistic activity in which the primary factor of performance is memorization (knowing what lines to play in a given board state), something which he himself notes is one of the most trivial criteria of cognitive performance.

The studies that seek to demonstrate cognitive differences disappearing with expertise - and the people who make them - suffer from quantification bias; the easiest things to measure are often also the most trivial. A given selection criteria will stop making meaningful distinctions between subjects past a given point because you&#039;ve gone past the point where its depth is exhausted; so that a one sigma increase and a six sigma would both be equally unimpactful on the outcome past that point.

You see this all the time in &#039;child prodigy&#039; stories; they are all but always about something like mathematics, or playing an instrument, or a board game, or other things of that nature; that is to say, things that are all heavily weighted to calculative aptitude; things that are easily measured and easy for a normie himself to recognize.

When he thinks of a &#039;genius&#039; he thinks of something like Sherlock Holmes writing a dissertation in his head in the middle of a fist fight about how he is going to totally own the other guy. In reality a genius fighter, if he has experience in fighting, is just going to intuitively anticipate his opponent without even having to think about it consciously. It&#039;s not simply a difference in process, it&#039;s an alien perspective altogether.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strong weakens his point by using performance at chess as an example of cognitive antinomianism, as in more absolute terms chess is a highly simplistic activity in which the primary factor of performance is memorization (knowing what lines to play in a given board state), something which he himself notes is one of the most trivial criteria of cognitive performance.</p>
<p>The studies that seek to demonstrate cognitive differences disappearing with expertise &#8211; and the people who make them &#8211; suffer from quantification bias; the easiest things to measure are often also the most trivial. A given selection criteria will stop making meaningful distinctions between subjects past a given point because you&#8217;ve gone past the point where its depth is exhausted; so that a one sigma increase and a six sigma would both be equally unimpactful on the outcome past that point.</p>
<p>You see this all the time in &#8216;child prodigy&#8217; stories; they are all but always about something like mathematics, or playing an instrument, or a board game, or other things of that nature; that is to say, things that are all heavily weighted to calculative aptitude; things that are easily measured and easy for a normie himself to recognize.</p>
<p>When he thinks of a &#8216;genius&#8217; he thinks of something like Sherlock Holmes writing a dissertation in his head in the middle of a fist fight about how he is going to totally own the other guy. In reality a genius fighter, if he has experience in fighting, is just going to intuitively anticipate his opponent without even having to think about it consciously. It&#8217;s not simply a difference in process, it&#8217;s an alien perspective altogether.</p>
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