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	<title>Comments on: Do ten times as much</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/06/do-ten-times-as-much/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Riet</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/06/do-ten-times-as-much/comment-page-1/#comment-3612698</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Riet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2023 11:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I speak as a golf duffer who tried the ten times approach, as do millions of other duffers every day and yet our scores never improve. Perhaps we have reached the limits of our competence and it doesn&#039;t take ten thousand hours to discover that. Two hundred hours would be ample.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I speak as a golf duffer who tried the ten times approach, as do millions of other duffers every day and yet our scores never improve. Perhaps we have reached the limits of our competence and it doesn&#8217;t take ten thousand hours to discover that. Two hundred hours would be ample.</p>
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		<title>By: Longarch</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/06/do-ten-times-as-much/comment-page-1/#comment-3611973</link>
		<dc:creator>Longarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2023 03:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50145#comment-3611973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caplan is apparently an actual expert who was writing in his field of expertise. My criticisms were unwarranted. Thanks for the correction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caplan is apparently an actual expert who was writing in his field of expertise. My criticisms were unwarranted. Thanks for the correction.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/06/do-ten-times-as-much/comment-page-1/#comment-3611939</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2023 20:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50145#comment-3611939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bryan Caplan has looked into &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.econlib.org/archives/2012/08/the_marginal_pr.html&quot;&gt;foreign language education&lt;/a&gt; (in the US), and it is awful: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;25.7% of respondents speak a language other than English.  Within this sample, 41.5% claim to speak the other language “very well.”  Within this sub-sub-sample, just 7.0% say they learned to speak this foreign language in school.  If you multiply out these three percentages, you get 0.7%.  The marginal product of two years of pain and suffering per high school graduate: less than one student in a hundred acquires fluency.  (And that’s self-assessed fluency, which people almost surely exaggerate).

If you lower the bar from “very well” to “well” the picture remains grim: merely 2.5% of GSS respondents claimed to reach this level of foreign language competence in school.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

An education professor who studies foreign language acquisition &lt;a href=&quot;https://betonit.substack.com/p/letter-from-a-linguist&quot;&gt;wrote to him&lt;/a&gt; in agreement: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;I finally had the opportunity to conduct a study in which I could measure how much of a language that monolingual US students mastered after 1, 2, and 3 years of Spanish courses in high school by using a standardized measure normed with native Spanish speakers. The short answer, as you said, is not much at all.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Caplan’s homeschooled sons became fluent in Spanish — by doing ten times as much as normal students.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan Caplan has looked into <a href="https://www.econlib.org/archives/2012/08/the_marginal_pr.html">foreign language education</a> (in the US), and it is awful: </p>
<blockquote><p>25.7% of respondents speak a language other than English.  Within this sample, 41.5% claim to speak the other language “very well.”  Within this sub-sub-sample, just 7.0% say they learned to speak this foreign language in school.  If you multiply out these three percentages, you get 0.7%.  The marginal product of two years of pain and suffering per high school graduate: less than one student in a hundred acquires fluency.  (And that’s self-assessed fluency, which people almost surely exaggerate).</p>
<p>If you lower the bar from “very well” to “well” the picture remains grim: merely 2.5% of GSS respondents claimed to reach this level of foreign language competence in school.</p></blockquote>
<p>An education professor who studies foreign language acquisition <a href="https://betonit.substack.com/p/letter-from-a-linguist">wrote to him</a> in agreement: </p>
<blockquote><p>I finally had the opportunity to conduct a study in which I could measure how much of a language that monolingual US students mastered after 1, 2, and 3 years of Spanish courses in high school by using a standardized measure normed with native Spanish speakers. The short answer, as you said, is not much at all.</p></blockquote>
<p>Caplan’s homeschooled sons became fluent in Spanish — by doing ten times as much as normal students.</p>
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		<title>By: Longarch</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/06/do-ten-times-as-much/comment-page-1/#comment-3611936</link>
		<dc:creator>Longarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2023 20:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50145#comment-3611936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The &quot;ten times as much&quot; idea has a tiny kernel of truth but Caplan presents it very misleadingly.  It is true that very successful people put forth ten times as much activity as their less-successful peers. However, increasing activity level usually does NOT increase effectiveness.  Consider Stockton Rush, the persuasive salesman who recently sold a one-way trip to see the shipwreck of the Titanic. Stockton Rush did ten times as much persuasive selling as his peers.  This was not good for Rush&#039;s customers.


&gt;Almost no one learns how to speak a foreign language very well in school.

Is he writing about the Western world in general, perhaps about one specific country? Does he have a data set of students?

&gt;Going from zero to fluency is ultra-rare, but I’ve seen it happen. 

Did he document his observations at all, or is he relying on memory?

&gt;During my eight years in college, I spent many thousands of hours reading about economics, politics, and philosophy. 


Did he have the leisure to spend eight years in college because he got merit scholarships or because he had rich parents?




&gt;Since high school, I’ve spent over ten thousand hours writing. 


Lots of people have spent tens of thousands of hours on writing.  Some of them are productive. Many of them are semi-successful hucksters.


&gt;When young people ask me, “How can I be like you?“ my first thought is, again, do ten times as much.


Caplan comes across as a salesman using vague anecdotes to look for more customers.


&gt;Ten times as much of what, exactly? The answer is usually: Whatever you already think the crucial ingredient is. 


That is horrible advice. If young people are coming to Caplan and they want to succeed, they don&#039;t know what the crucial ingredient is, and Caplan is not responsible for his failures. Caplan can give bad advice to young people and then ignore the ones who fail.
 


&gt;“Why can’t I get ahead in my career? I strive to study and emulate my role models.” Great idea; you just need to multiply your effort by a factor a ten.


This leaves out the questions of whether the role models are appropriate, whether the world&#039;s circumstances have changed, etc. For example, John D. Rockefeller managed to succeed (by leveraging his psychopathic traits), and possibly some budding psychopaths managed to succeed by imitating him, but that does not prove he is an effective role model in the 21st century.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;ten times as much&#8221; idea has a tiny kernel of truth but Caplan presents it very misleadingly.  It is true that very successful people put forth ten times as much activity as their less-successful peers. However, increasing activity level usually does NOT increase effectiveness.  Consider Stockton Rush, the persuasive salesman who recently sold a one-way trip to see the shipwreck of the Titanic. Stockton Rush did ten times as much persuasive selling as his peers.  This was not good for Rush&#8217;s customers.</p>
<p>&gt;Almost no one learns how to speak a foreign language very well in school.</p>
<p>Is he writing about the Western world in general, perhaps about one specific country? Does he have a data set of students?</p>
<p>&gt;Going from zero to fluency is ultra-rare, but I’ve seen it happen. </p>
<p>Did he document his observations at all, or is he relying on memory?</p>
<p>&gt;During my eight years in college, I spent many thousands of hours reading about economics, politics, and philosophy. </p>
<p>Did he have the leisure to spend eight years in college because he got merit scholarships or because he had rich parents?</p>
<p>&gt;Since high school, I’ve spent over ten thousand hours writing. </p>
<p>Lots of people have spent tens of thousands of hours on writing.  Some of them are productive. Many of them are semi-successful hucksters.</p>
<p>&gt;When young people ask me, “How can I be like you?“ my first thought is, again, do ten times as much.</p>
<p>Caplan comes across as a salesman using vague anecdotes to look for more customers.</p>
<p>&gt;Ten times as much of what, exactly? The answer is usually: Whatever you already think the crucial ingredient is. </p>
<p>That is horrible advice. If young people are coming to Caplan and they want to succeed, they don&#8217;t know what the crucial ingredient is, and Caplan is not responsible for his failures. Caplan can give bad advice to young people and then ignore the ones who fail.</p>
<p>&gt;“Why can’t I get ahead in my career? I strive to study and emulate my role models.” Great idea; you just need to multiply your effort by a factor a ten.</p>
<p>This leaves out the questions of whether the role models are appropriate, whether the world&#8217;s circumstances have changed, etc. For example, John D. Rockefeller managed to succeed (by leveraging his psychopathic traits), and possibly some budding psychopaths managed to succeed by imitating him, but that does not prove he is an effective role model in the 21st century.</p>
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		<title>By: No Smoke</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2023/06/do-ten-times-as-much/comment-page-1/#comment-3611654</link>
		<dc:creator>No Smoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=50145#comment-3611654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Almost every single day I practice reading shapenotes for about an hour.  Many others I know with the same interest seldom practice. I want to learn to read this stuff with ease, so I practice.  And practice. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Almost every single day I practice reading shapenotes for about an hour.  Many others I know with the same interest seldom practice. I want to learn to read this stuff with ease, so I practice.  And practice. :)</p>
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