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	<title>Comments on: No Western artillery system is as capable and none apparently has the accuracy offered by GIS Arta</title>
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		<title>By: Gavin Longmuir</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554801</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Longmuir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2022 02:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[VXXC:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;the Ukrainians will, will turn on us, and I mean KILL AMERICANS.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Thanks for the explanation, VXXC.  You are probably correct.  Helping to defeat the Axis in WWII and then paying for rebuilding Western Europe afterwards certainly did not earn the US any thanks from ungrateful Euros.  

When Ukrainians are eventually forced to recognize that the US &quot;led them up the garden path&quot;, payback could indeed get personal.  And the Ukrainians have all those donated Stinger missiles etc to make life back in the US very unpleasant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VXXC:  <i>&#8220;the Ukrainians will, will turn on us, and I mean KILL AMERICANS.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation, VXXC.  You are probably correct.  Helping to defeat the Axis in WWII and then paying for rebuilding Western Europe afterwards certainly did not earn the US any thanks from ungrateful Euros.  </p>
<p>When Ukrainians are eventually forced to recognize that the US &#8220;led them up the garden path&#8221;, payback could indeed get personal.  And the Ukrainians have all those donated Stinger missiles etc to make life back in the US very unpleasant.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554788</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I mean, Gavin, that just as the [short list] Afghans and Iraqis turned on us, the Ukrainians will, will turn on us, and I mean KILL AMERICANS. 

I can add a longer list going at least back to Iran 1970s, and they didn&#039;t hate CIA you know...

...they hated MIT.  

It only takes time.  Who likes our elites?
They don&#039;t even like themselves.

Self-loathing narcissists all of them, that must be interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean, Gavin, that just as the [short list] Afghans and Iraqis turned on us, the Ukrainians will, will turn on us, and I mean KILL AMERICANS. </p>
<p>I can add a longer list going at least back to Iran 1970s, and they didn&#8217;t hate CIA you know&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;they hated MIT.  </p>
<p>It only takes time.  Who likes our elites?<br />
They don&#8217;t even like themselves.</p>
<p>Self-loathing narcissists all of them, that must be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Longmuir</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554495</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Longmuir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2022 02:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[VXXC:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;Expect Uko-Nazis to explode at meeting with American Generals or VIPs in the future.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Please expand on what you are anticipating.  &quot;Explode&quot; as in bad-mouthing the US to the folks from the BBC?  &quot;Explode&quot; as in the German Operation Valkyrie?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VXXC:  <i>&#8220;Expect Uko-Nazis to explode at meeting with American Generals or VIPs in the future.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Please expand on what you are anticipating.  &#8220;Explode&#8221; as in bad-mouthing the US to the folks from the BBC?  &#8220;Explode&#8221; as in the German Operation Valkyrie?</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554491</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2022 02:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Russians are maneuvering at leisure &#8212; all along &#8212; and they are under no time pressure.

The Russian plays the same game he played in Syria. Tactical diplomacy, hostile escape corridors, using firepower [just as we do] to reduce the enemy positions before advancing, all under no pressure. They are employing a fraction of their forces which they are rotating and resting. They have artillery superiority by an enormous margin and face no air threat, Russian doctrine says use artillery as main arm with armor and infantry supporting. 

The Ukrainians are dug into static positions praying for the Russians to idiotically lose their standoff distance and attack so they can use their magic saint Javelin&#039;s. 

The Ukrainians seemingly have forgotten every lesson of the last century or more and gone to static positions that can be reduced to rubble out of which they mount nearly incomprehensible attacks on the Russians over open terrain that are probably the cause of their horrific losses [COL Douglas Macgregor estimates at 80%).  Mind you it&#039;s not totally wrong to hug the enemy, like the Vietnamese did, but they had jungle to hug the enemy, not open terrain. 

Interestingly the Ukrainians have forgotten the last 8 years of war, that mobility was survival. Their best General of 2015 is not involved. 

The next insider threat to explode at a meeting with the Americans is Ukrainian.  It only takes time. 

I&#039;m glad an Asia Times Millennial has found a fun Android app called Arta to play war with. They never got out much as kids. This is so much more fun than HALO or Call of Duty or Skyrim I&#039;m sure. What artillery exactly is going to answer the call of Arta?

Now to cut the Scheiss: the real Ukrainian army is west of Dnieper and the Nazis were sent to die. 

Expect Uko-Nazis to explode at meeting with American Generals or VIPs in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Russians are maneuvering at leisure &mdash; all along &mdash; and they are under no time pressure.</p>
<p>The Russian plays the same game he played in Syria. Tactical diplomacy, hostile escape corridors, using firepower [just as we do] to reduce the enemy positions before advancing, all under no pressure. They are employing a fraction of their forces which they are rotating and resting. They have artillery superiority by an enormous margin and face no air threat, Russian doctrine says use artillery as main arm with armor and infantry supporting. </p>
<p>The Ukrainians are dug into static positions praying for the Russians to idiotically lose their standoff distance and attack so they can use their magic saint Javelin&#8217;s. </p>
<p>The Ukrainians seemingly have forgotten every lesson of the last century or more and gone to static positions that can be reduced to rubble out of which they mount nearly incomprehensible attacks on the Russians over open terrain that are probably the cause of their horrific losses [COL Douglas Macgregor estimates at 80%).  Mind you it&#8217;s not totally wrong to hug the enemy, like the Vietnamese did, but they had jungle to hug the enemy, not open terrain. </p>
<p>Interestingly the Ukrainians have forgotten the last 8 years of war, that mobility was survival. Their best General of 2015 is not involved. </p>
<p>The next insider threat to explode at a meeting with the Americans is Ukrainian.  It only takes time. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad an Asia Times Millennial has found a fun Android app called Arta to play war with. They never got out much as kids. This is so much more fun than HALO or Call of Duty or Skyrim I&#8217;m sure. What artillery exactly is going to answer the call of Arta?</p>
<p>Now to cut the Scheiss: the real Ukrainian army is west of Dnieper and the Nazis were sent to die. </p>
<p>Expect Uko-Nazis to explode at meeting with American Generals or VIPs in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554488</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2022 01:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Consider that typically it takes 20 minutes to program coordinates into an artillery piece and fire the weapon.&quot;

I&#039;m going to let an artilleryman answer this &#8212; except that what planet is this on? 

Isegoria, please...don&#039;t...put...stuff...like...this...up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Consider that typically it takes 20 minutes to program coordinates into an artillery piece and fire the weapon.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to let an artilleryman answer this &mdash; except that what planet is this on? </p>
<p>Isegoria, please&#8230;don&#8217;t&#8230;put&#8230;stuff&#8230;like&#8230;this&#8230;up.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Longmuir</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554469</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Longmuir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kunning D:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;Does anyone have a clear picture of the air war?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Excellent question!  Broaden that -- does anyone have a clear picture of the total war?  So much propaganda and lies -- not all of it from the Kiev side, either.

The question about the air war gets back to the broader question -- Why has Russia not done what the US/NATO did when &quot;Our Guys&quot; invaded Iraq &amp; Serbia and attacked Libya?  That is, why have the Russians not bombed the hell out of every airfield, bridge, power plant, water plant, government office in the Ukraine?  Presumably, the Russians have that capability, but they have (so far) chosen not to use it.  

One theory is that the Russian military is a paper tiger and does not have the capability to inflict serious harm on the Ukraine.  
A second theory is that the Russians are deliberately not using their full capabilities to avoid showing them to the US/NATO.  
A third theory is that Russia genuinely sees this not as a war to win but as a Special Military Operation to safeguard the people of the Donbas, and thus wants to minimize damage.  
Perhaps we will never know the answer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kunning D:  <i>&#8220;Does anyone have a clear picture of the air war?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Excellent question!  Broaden that &#8212; does anyone have a clear picture of the total war?  So much propaganda and lies &#8212; not all of it from the Kiev side, either.</p>
<p>The question about the air war gets back to the broader question &#8212; Why has Russia not done what the US/NATO did when &#8220;Our Guys&#8221; invaded Iraq &amp; Serbia and attacked Libya?  That is, why have the Russians not bombed the hell out of every airfield, bridge, power plant, water plant, government office in the Ukraine?  Presumably, the Russians have that capability, but they have (so far) chosen not to use it.  </p>
<p>One theory is that the Russian military is a paper tiger and does not have the capability to inflict serious harm on the Ukraine.<br />
A second theory is that the Russians are deliberately not using their full capabilities to avoid showing them to the US/NATO.<br />
A third theory is that Russia genuinely sees this not as a war to win but as a Special Military Operation to safeguard the people of the Donbas, and thus wants to minimize damage.<br />
Perhaps we will never know the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Kunning Drueger</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554442</link>
		<dc:creator>Kunning Drueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2022 14:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there a case to be made that this &quot;GIS Arta&quot; is just a crude switcheroo? The precedent is well established at this point that Occidental info sources take what Russia is doing, say Ukraine is actually doing it, then publish/post/forward. As PC says, and ASB-M tgram channel confirms, RF puts shots on target, then saturates the area around it, while Ukes walk fire onto the target.

Under no authority whatsoever, I wish to change the conversation. Why is that AFU is still fielding military aircraft? I know RF has wiped out much of the AFU aircrafts, but a week has not gone by that there isn&#039;t footage of another AFU chopper gets shot down, or a RF pilot engages AFU Migs. Does anyone have a clear picture of the air war?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a case to be made that this &#8220;GIS Arta&#8221; is just a crude switcheroo? The precedent is well established at this point that Occidental info sources take what Russia is doing, say Ukraine is actually doing it, then publish/post/forward. As PC says, and ASB-M tgram channel confirms, RF puts shots on target, then saturates the area around it, while Ukes walk fire onto the target.</p>
<p>Under no authority whatsoever, I wish to change the conversation. Why is that AFU is still fielding military aircraft? I know RF has wiped out much of the AFU aircrafts, but a week has not gone by that there isn&#8217;t footage of another AFU chopper gets shot down, or a RF pilot engages AFU Migs. Does anyone have a clear picture of the air war?</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudo-Chrysostom</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554419</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudo-Chrysostom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2022 11:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Look at videos of fires, it looks like whatever the uke occupational forces are using involves walking shells onto targets, while whatever the ruslan forces are using involves a shell landing on the target in the first strike.

There are some implications one can derive from this. One is that the way the nato troops are using drones is in more or less essentially the same way as artillery spotters of yesteryear, with a more streamlined interface/OODA loop; see target, plot map coordinates, send to assets, observe fire, and correct.

Whereas, whatever the Russians are using must involve the generation of a more raw physical vector. There are several ways this could be accomplished; for example, the observing unit using stereoscopic or interferometric rangefinding to generate a range and azimuth between itself and the target, which is signaled to a nearby ordnance asset, which then generates a range and azimuth between itself and the asset, and these two sets of values can then be interpolated to generate a range and azimuth between the asset and the target.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at videos of fires, it looks like whatever the uke occupational forces are using involves walking shells onto targets, while whatever the ruslan forces are using involves a shell landing on the target in the first strike.</p>
<p>There are some implications one can derive from this. One is that the way the nato troops are using drones is in more or less essentially the same way as artillery spotters of yesteryear, with a more streamlined interface/OODA loop; see target, plot map coordinates, send to assets, observe fire, and correct.</p>
<p>Whereas, whatever the Russians are using must involve the generation of a more raw physical vector. There are several ways this could be accomplished; for example, the observing unit using stereoscopic or interferometric rangefinding to generate a range and azimuth between itself and the target, which is signaled to a nearby ordnance asset, which then generates a range and azimuth between itself and the asset, and these two sets of values can then be interpolated to generate a range and azimuth between the asset and the target.</p>
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		<title>By: Bomag</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554265</link>
		<dc:creator>Bomag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2022 12:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, from what I gather the Azov battalion has ceased to exist, but I doubt Putin is going to give a &quot;mission accomplished&quot; speech anytime soon.

Like the Western politician who comes to the microphone; lip quivering; announcing the great danger from White Nationalism, the Ukraine de-Nazification seems more for public consumption and an excuse for open ended activity.  You can&#039;t punch too much when it comes to Nazis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, from what I gather the Azov battalion has ceased to exist, but I doubt Putin is going to give a &#8220;mission accomplished&#8221; speech anytime soon.</p>
<p>Like the Western politician who comes to the microphone; lip quivering; announcing the great danger from White Nationalism, the Ukraine de-Nazification seems more for public consumption and an excuse for open ended activity.  You can&#8217;t punch too much when it comes to Nazis.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Longmuir</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/07/no-western-artillery-system-is-as-capable-and-none-apparently-has-the-accuracy-offered-by-gis-arta/comment-page-1/#comment-3554199</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Longmuir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2022 23:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=49068#comment-3554199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bomag:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;Appear to be rather indiscriminate.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Not really.  &quot;Denazification&quot; appeared to be focused on groups like the Ukrainian Azov battalion which had been murdering Russian-speaking Ukrainians for the prior 8 years.

But we are all struggling here with trying to find the facts.  All we get from government media in the West is pro-Kiev propaganda.  It does not give us much of a basis for understanding what is really going on.  The only sure thing is the government propaganda is just that -- propaganda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bomag:  <i>&#8220;Appear to be rather indiscriminate.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Not really.  &#8220;Denazification&#8221; appeared to be focused on groups like the Ukrainian Azov battalion which had been murdering Russian-speaking Ukrainians for the prior 8 years.</p>
<p>But we are all struggling here with trying to find the facts.  All we get from government media in the West is pro-Kiev propaganda.  It does not give us much of a basis for understanding what is really going on.  The only sure thing is the government propaganda is just that &#8212; propaganda.</p>
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