Comments on: China has a long and effective history of using massed small craft to rebuff stronger rivals

By: Goober

Goober — Wed, 03 Aug 2022 22:46:09 +0000

Jeune Ecole is back, baby!

By: Pseudo-Chrysostom

Pseudo-Chrysostom — Fri, 22 Jul 2022 16:34:40 +0000

Relatively speaking, of course. What I’m saying is, they’ve got a fair few number of pies cooking, and it isn’t their biggest one.

By: Gavin Longmuir

Gavin Longmuir — Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:41:59 +0000

Pseudo-Chrysostom: “Well, China isn’t exactly investing in a navy…”

That navy that the Chinese are not exactly investing in is already equivalent in size to the US Navy — and is planned to keep on growing from here, while the US Navy is projected to keep shrinking, and European navies are already effectively irrelevant.

The world is moving on, and the West is no longer the unchallenged Top Dog. Unfortunately, too many of us are stuck in the past.

By: Altitude Zero

Altitude Zero — Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:07:36 +0000

China has also acquired a couple aircraft carriers, and are building a third. They appear to be following a two-track strategy — probably a smart move.

By: Pseudo-Chrysostom

Pseudo-Chrysostom — Fri, 22 Jul 2022 04:01:58 +0000

Well, China isn’t exactly investing in a navy, as much as they are investing in anti-shipping missiles to render other people’s navies irrelevant.

By: Altitude Zero

Altitude Zero — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 22:57:05 +0000

There’s no doubt that small craft like torpedo and missile boats are extremely useful, punch way above their weight, and can kill capital ships when the circumstances are right. All I am saying is that, as of yet, no lesser naval power has managed to defeat the blue-water navy of a greater naval power with swarms of smaller, cheaper craft. I’m not saying it won’t or can’t happen. China may very well be the first, and technology may be turning major capital ships of any kind into sitting ducks. I’d just like to point out that this has been predicted before, ever since the mid-19th century, and it hasn’t happened yet. A country with the money to invest should probably invest in both (as indeed the ChiComs are doing).

By: McChuck

McChuck — Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:49:47 +0000

Peru and Ecuador teamed up a few years ago when China’s enormous fishing fleet came calling. They issued three warnings, then started indiscriminately sinking Chinese fishing boats. They didn’t bother even trying to collect survivors, leaving that to the hundreds of other Chinese vessels.

China’s great fishing fleet hasn’t returned to that part of the ocean since.

By: Pseudo-Chrysostom

Pseudo-Chrysostom — Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:12:29 +0000

The problem of using high altitude bombers to attack ships in WW2 was one of fire control; the bombs would not hit the target.

If you have a means of solving the fire-control issue, then that is another matter.

The matter of fire control was also illustrated in the Battle off Samar, where the destroyer escorts of the American sailors ran rings around the big gun cruisers and battleships of the Japanese fleet, and sooner ran out of ammo before their counterparts managed to land any critical hits.

The reason you never really saw many matchups like this in that period of history largely revolves around the fact that no side every really went in on such a strategy in the first place, including the Germans. Large capital ships had a spiritual gravity that went far beyond many more material concerns.

BuNav statistics collated after the war showed that the number one killer of surface vessels was torpedoes (i assume including from all sources; eg, submarines, destroyers, and air-dropped), followed by dive bombing, with gunfire a distant third.

By: Adar

Adar — Tue, 19 Jul 2022 15:51:10 +0000

Strategic bombers were not a great success in their anti-ship role in WW2. QUICKSINK is trying to resurrect the concept of a high-altitude bomber warplane trying to take out a surface vessel. The jury is out on the JDAM solution?

By: Altitude Zero

Altitude Zero — Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:26:26 +0000

As Pseudo says, PT boats were absolutely vital in WWII, and small craft such as missile boats are certainly cost-effective, but it’s worth pointing out that, so far in naval history, the strategy of using smaller, cheaper craft to counteract a blue-water fleet has so far not really panned out, although it came close for the Germans in both World Wars. Maybe this time it will be different, but so far that’s not the way to bet.