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	<title>Comments on: The infantry is once again the queen of the battlefield</title>
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	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Goober</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3536856</link>
		<dc:creator>Goober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2022 23:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3536856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea that Russia has been &quot;holding back&quot; it&#039;s best armor has been proven to be incorrect.  They are losing their better tanks at the same ratio as they have them in service, roughly.  (IE, if T-90s make up 10% of the force, they&#039;re making up about 10% of the losses, as well).  

The only tank we haven&#039;t seen in Ukraine is the T-14 Armata, but they only have something like 16 of those, and the rumor is that they&#039;re having serious reliability issues with them, so it&#039;s not terribly surprising that we haven&#039;t seen them yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that Russia has been &#8220;holding back&#8221; it&#8217;s best armor has been proven to be incorrect.  They are losing their better tanks at the same ratio as they have them in service, roughly.  (IE, if T-90s make up 10% of the force, they&#8217;re making up about 10% of the losses, as well).  </p>
<p>The only tank we haven&#8217;t seen in Ukraine is the T-14 Armata, but they only have something like 16 of those, and the rumor is that they&#8217;re having serious reliability issues with them, so it&#8217;s not terribly surprising that we haven&#8217;t seen them yet.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3530185</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2022 02:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3530185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Where is the evidence they work as intended, and why were they not deployed in the Ukraine Invasion?&quot;
[meaning APS]. 

The first question is unknown to me at least. 

They have deployed certainly with reactive armor. 

As to why they are holding back their best armor...they&#039;re saving that for a bigger war say with NATO or the US.  They are also holding back on most of their air force. 

Let us understand the US Army and military have had quite a chance to look at the Russians very hard since 2014 and are not nearly as cocky or confident as the US civilians.  All our shortcomings have of course been identified as well as the Russian&#039;s perceived strengths. 

Have a look at a good effort by a Senior and experienced Captain in 2017 suggesting how a US BCT [Brigade Combat Team] of 4500 can defeat a Russian BTG [Battalion Tactical Group] of 1100 despite being outgunned in Artillery, EW, Air Defense, and not having Air Supremacy [we&#039;ve had it since 1945 and this will be an enormous shock]. 

https://www.benning.army.mil/armor/earmor/content/issues/2017/spring/2Fiore17.pdf

His conclusions are you outnumber them so disperse as they do tend to focus on a target before committing [the Russian must have gains to justify risk] and then use your manpower superiority to exhaust them and attrit their lesser resources [attrition from superior manpower]. 

However the Russians have 168 BTGs as of 2021 and we only have 60 BCTs including the National Guard&#039;s 28 BCTs.  This means full commitment of armies may not work for attrition.  

Oh and the Russian is better networked down to the tactical and unit level than we are, we fell behind you see chasing Haji around. 

The Russian is ready for land war in Europe and the US military is not, never mind NATO.  They&#039;ve been preparing for a decade.  We haven&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Where is the evidence they work as intended, and why were they not deployed in the Ukraine Invasion?&#8221;<br />
[meaning APS]. </p>
<p>The first question is unknown to me at least. </p>
<p>They have deployed certainly with reactive armor. </p>
<p>As to why they are holding back their best armor&#8230;they&#8217;re saving that for a bigger war say with NATO or the US.  They are also holding back on most of their air force. </p>
<p>Let us understand the US Army and military have had quite a chance to look at the Russians very hard since 2014 and are not nearly as cocky or confident as the US civilians.  All our shortcomings have of course been identified as well as the Russian&#8217;s perceived strengths. </p>
<p>Have a look at a good effort by a Senior and experienced Captain in 2017 suggesting how a US BCT [Brigade Combat Team] of 4500 can defeat a Russian BTG [Battalion Tactical Group] of 1100 despite being outgunned in Artillery, EW, Air Defense, and not having Air Supremacy [we've had it since 1945 and this will be an enormous shock]. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.benning.army.mil/armor/earmor/content/issues/2017/spring/2Fiore17.pdf" >https://www.benning.army.mil/armor/earmor/content/issues/2017/spring/2Fiore17.pdf</a></p>
<p>His conclusions are you outnumber them so disperse as they do tend to focus on a target before committing [the Russian must have gains to justify risk] and then use your manpower superiority to exhaust them and attrit their lesser resources [attrition from superior manpower]. </p>
<p>However the Russians have 168 BTGs as of 2021 and we only have 60 BCTs including the National Guard&#8217;s 28 BCTs.  This means full commitment of armies may not work for attrition.  </p>
<p>Oh and the Russian is better networked down to the tactical and unit level than we are, we fell behind you see chasing Haji around. </p>
<p>The Russian is ready for land war in Europe and the US military is not, never mind NATO.  They&#8217;ve been preparing for a decade.  We haven&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucklucky</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3529614</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucklucky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2022 01:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3529614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Russia has developed several and deployed them, but most of the units they have committed to Ukraine are equipped with somewhat older armor lacking APS systems.&quot;

Where is the evidence they work as intended, and why were they not deployed in the Ukraine Invasion?

In the West everyone is buying Israeli APS Trophy (USA, Germany, UK etc) or Ironfist (Dutch at least).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Russia has developed several and deployed them, but most of the units they have committed to Ukraine are equipped with somewhat older armor lacking APS systems.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where is the evidence they work as intended, and why were they not deployed in the Ukraine Invasion?</p>
<p>In the West everyone is buying Israeli APS Trophy (USA, Germany, UK etc) or Ironfist (Dutch at least).</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3529474</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3529474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The current war in Ukraine is causing no end of trouble for the staff officers and civil servants working on next year’s budgets.&quot;

TRUE DAT!

It&#039;s actually fortunate that the picture of the Horse Soldiers riding into battle in Afghanistan didn&#039;t cause us to go horse cavalry, which would be of course CHEAPER than tanks.  Mind you this would have been followed by a lot of drama when the horses starved for lack of fodder never mind PETA being made a cabinet level appointment [but we NEED DRAMA don&#039;t we?]

Real World: The Ukraine war taught the participants what the Israelis already learned and applied, that &quot;light skinned&quot; and &quot;deployable&quot; armored vehicles like the APC M113 and BTR80, etc. are iron coffins where you will burn to death.. The Israelis made the Merkava series for that reason. The Infantry support vehicle must have the same armor thickness of the tank. If not, you will see the troops riding &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_desant&quot;&gt;Desant&lt;/a&gt;, that is, on top of the vehicle.  If you take fire or artillery, you dismount or disperse. This is better than burning to death. 

Look for the next installment of our school*-minted Sergeant Majors to be bitching about seat belts being worn on top of the tanks and APCs.  

*Yep, all school-made SGMs, and no one respects their punk asses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The current war in Ukraine is causing no end of trouble for the staff officers and civil servants working on next year’s budgets.&#8221;</p>
<p>TRUE DAT!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s actually fortunate that the picture of the Horse Soldiers riding into battle in Afghanistan didn&#8217;t cause us to go horse cavalry, which would be of course CHEAPER than tanks.  Mind you this would have been followed by a lot of drama when the horses starved for lack of fodder never mind PETA being made a cabinet level appointment [but we NEED DRAMA don't we?]</p>
<p>Real World: The Ukraine war taught the participants what the Israelis already learned and applied, that &#8220;light skinned&#8221; and &#8220;deployable&#8221; armored vehicles like the APC M113 and BTR80, etc. are iron coffins where you will burn to death.. The Israelis made the Merkava series for that reason. The Infantry support vehicle must have the same armor thickness of the tank. If not, you will see the troops riding <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_desant">Desant</a>, that is, on top of the vehicle.  If you take fire or artillery, you dismount or disperse. This is better than burning to death. </p>
<p>Look for the next installment of our school*-minted Sergeant Majors to be bitching about seat belts being worn on top of the tanks and APCs.  </p>
<p>*Yep, all school-made SGMs, and no one respects their punk asses.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3529208</link>
		<dc:creator>VXXC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2022 21:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3529208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve lost a lot of respect for Luttwak over Ukraine.

Mind you, he&#039;s clearly biased, and clearly getting paid [he makes it a public point to say &#039;first always get paid]. 

The Infantry is the Queen of battle blah blah until the other side lets loose with artillery that far outranges any antitank weapon and that can quite be used to have your tanks and infantry walk over rubble and corpses &#8212; and Luttwak knows this, I&#039;ve read several of his books. 

Even Luttwak on his Twitter is saying it&#039;s time to negotiate. 

In the end, people need to look at a map and see where Ukraine is, and then ask themselves if it&#039;s worth nuclear war, because we&#039;re headed that way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve lost a lot of respect for Luttwak over Ukraine.</p>
<p>Mind you, he&#8217;s clearly biased, and clearly getting paid [he makes it a public point to say 'first always get paid]. </p>
<p>The Infantry is the Queen of battle blah blah until the other side lets loose with artillery that far outranges any antitank weapon and that can quite be used to have your tanks and infantry walk over rubble and corpses &mdash; and Luttwak knows this, I&#8217;ve read several of his books. </p>
<p>Even Luttwak on his Twitter is saying it&#8217;s time to negotiate. </p>
<p>In the end, people need to look at a map and see where Ukraine is, and then ask themselves if it&#8217;s worth nuclear war, because we&#8217;re headed that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Captain Obvious</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3529035</link>
		<dc:creator>Captain Obvious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3529035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another civilian that has never been in anyone&#039;s military or even got his hands dirty in a real job is going to push advice.  Armchair pukes with a GI Joe fantasy.  Infantry has its uses. DUH.  We&#039;ve known that armor is vulnerable without infantry support since 1918.  How about lecturing us on how water is wet?  Maybe said expert might explain how light infantry does best in areas with close cover, as opposed to say, a desert.  Or is 1991 too far to recall.  And how the Romans figured out that heavy infantry sucks in forests.  Luttwak is a master of the obvious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another civilian that has never been in anyone&#8217;s military or even got his hands dirty in a real job is going to push advice.  Armchair pukes with a GI Joe fantasy.  Infantry has its uses. DUH.  We&#8217;ve known that armor is vulnerable without infantry support since 1918.  How about lecturing us on how water is wet?  Maybe said expert might explain how light infantry does best in areas with close cover, as opposed to say, a desert.  Or is 1991 too far to recall.  And how the Romans figured out that heavy infantry sucks in forests.  Luttwak is a master of the obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: Roo_ster</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3528962</link>
		<dc:creator>Roo_ster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2022 22:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3528962</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This Luttwak fellow is an ignoramus.  

Armor protection Systems have been around for years, maybe running on two decades.  Israel is not the only country to produce one that is effective and to deploy them.  Russia has developed several and deployed them, but most of the units they have committed to Ukraine are equipped with somewhat older armor lacking APS systems.  

Also, counter-mortar/arty/UAV systems are coming online and will make the currently-effective UAVs ineffective.  Pretty much ANYTHING that gets above the terrain feature separating Us &amp; THEM will be liable to destruction: UAV, manned, or munition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Luttwak fellow is an ignoramus.  </p>
<p>Armor protection Systems have been around for years, maybe running on two decades.  Israel is not the only country to produce one that is effective and to deploy them.  Russia has developed several and deployed them, but most of the units they have committed to Ukraine are equipped with somewhat older armor lacking APS systems.  </p>
<p>Also, counter-mortar/arty/UAV systems are coming online and will make the currently-effective UAVs ineffective.  Pretty much ANYTHING that gets above the terrain feature separating Us &amp; THEM will be liable to destruction: UAV, manned, or munition.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike-SMO</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3528564</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike-SMO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3528564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is a complex situation. I don&#039;t know anything about the Ukrainian Military.

&quot;Compulsory Military Service&quot; means Conscripts.  Russian conscripts in the north came in expecting a victory parade, served as targets, committed atrocities and were sent home. A year as a conscript teaches you how to load and clean your rifle. Effective war fighting may be limited to countries that can afford to maintain large standing &quot;professional&quot; armies. Lots of conscripts means lots of casualties and upset parents. You need a narrative, like defense of the homeland to make that work. In the south of the Ukraine, where Russia has friendly militia and  limited goals, they are recruiting troops from Syria and the &quot;stans&quot;. Future wars may be limited to situations where a sudden hi-tech strike can take out the elite leaving &quot;occupation&quot; to an insurgent group that may be friendly to the foreign interests. Mass invading armies may be something for the &quot;movies&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a complex situation. I don&#8217;t know anything about the Ukrainian Military.</p>
<p>&#8220;Compulsory Military Service&#8221; means Conscripts.  Russian conscripts in the north came in expecting a victory parade, served as targets, committed atrocities and were sent home. A year as a conscript teaches you how to load and clean your rifle. Effective war fighting may be limited to countries that can afford to maintain large standing &#8220;professional&#8221; armies. Lots of conscripts means lots of casualties and upset parents. You need a narrative, like defense of the homeland to make that work. In the south of the Ukraine, where Russia has friendly militia and  limited goals, they are recruiting troops from Syria and the &#8220;stans&#8221;. Future wars may be limited to situations where a sudden hi-tech strike can take out the elite leaving &#8220;occupation&#8221; to an insurgent group that may be friendly to the foreign interests. Mass invading armies may be something for the &#8220;movies&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Contaminated NEET</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3528525</link>
		<dc:creator>Contaminated NEET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2022 05:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=48877#comment-3528525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;&quot;that raises the need for compulsory military service&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

You first, fella.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;that raises the need for compulsory military service&#8221;</em></p>
<p>You first, fella.</p>
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		<title>By: Wang Wei Lin</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2022/04/the-infantry-is-once-again-the-queen-of-the-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3528511</link>
		<dc:creator>Wang Wei Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2022 04:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[In the end, you have to get boots on the ground to control a region. Otherwise it&#039;s an asymmetric situation with the advantage going to the little guy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the end, you have to get boots on the ground to control a region. Otherwise it&#8217;s an asymmetric situation with the advantage going to the little guy.</p>
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