They must perish.

THIS is the problem.

ANY organization or club or whatever — condo owners association, shooting range/club board of directors, governing body of the International Pokemon Players Federation, doesn’t matter — sooner or later the busybody sociopath power-hungry Karens show up and ruin it with petty power politics.

The smaller the organization, the worse it usually is. This is Sayre’s law: “Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low.”

This is how you get the current ZAMPOLIT bull you have in the military. A faction feels it is more important to have “x” political feature (diversity, LGBTQ, etc.) represented than doing the actual job. The politics and personal or clique power becomes the most important thing and the actual role of the organization becomes secondary.

VXXC has it right. For some people, power (and the more petty it is, the worse it is), is the prime objective. Viz: the TSA goon, parking or bylaw enforcement, “mall cop”, customs goon, and so on.

“I think we have to acknowledge that the dirty hippies won, but the real question is, what, precisely, did the idiots win?”

They won POWER. And ALL THE MONEY in the WORLD.
The rest of us are just tenants.
In a one party system, that the NWO dirty hippies won.

Socialism doesn’t work? Socialism ALWAYS WORKS as POLITICS because it’s giving away money you didn’t earn. And Hippies/NWO won by SOCIALISM; because the masses agreed to be bought for pennies on the dollar, for instance 9 cents of every dollar spent on COVID relief. That’s the real people y’all.

The masses sold out to Socialism, and it works as a power platform. Because politics is POWER, not economics. Socialism doesn’t work?
Tell that to: Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Tito, Mussolini, FDR, every living Democratic official or voter, Hell tell it to every Republican politician. Tell it to Mitch McConnell, Nixon. Bush 43. Tell it to Mohammed – Halal or Booty and Islamic forced charity =socialism 100%.

Socialism as a formula for gaining and keeping and increasing power is the greatest formula for winning power known to man, War is second place and Islam 3d place.

The Constitutional government we had worked so poorly that in the end no one wanted it; not the politicians, not the voters, not the Army, not the People. That’s why and how the Republic died in 2021. The Republic is dead because everyone wanted something else, and for those of you who think you can kill the republic and keep the freedoms ala carte…I’m going to enjoy watching you suffer, unto the utmost. [If you're listening Deep State- make me an offer]. I’m not greedy or treasonous, just tired of playing the Chump. For the rest of you: you’ll really miss the Republic, you have no idea.

Yet.

The Constitution was written by hard working White European English Speaking men for hard working, honest, brave English Speaking greater Anglosphere men. When power was shared beyond that demographic it was doomed, and it’s gone.

Politics is POWER, not results beyond gaining and keeping POWER, Politics is absolutely not Economics.

Actually I’m not against American Socialism put into practice as a partially paid for safety net. aka Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment insurance, Disability.

My objection here is conflating Politics [Power] with Economics [Money]. They are very distinct, this is a horrific category error.

Socialism works wonderfully as a formula for POWER, it limps along and drives the productive and competent, hard working nuts but lets be honest: the productive and competent are always going to be driven nuts by the rest, especially the rest in charge. No -ism except Social Darwinism and unbridled Capitalism ala Ireland 1847 will satisfy those who despise all non-hackers [gunny hartman].

But from the standpoint of POWER or ECONOMICS$ the Republic and Constitution sucked, it was putting a 25mph max speed limit on both. None stood for it because it just stopped working for what we really want, my fellow Americans.

Politics is POWER, not ECONOMICS.

The British Commandos operated like that in their early days. Staff officers would designate targets or missions, and then it might be a sergeant who did the planning, logistics, and led the field work. They skipped most of the layers of useless administrative overhead… until they were established enough to develop their own.

Most organizations work best when they’re “lean and hungry” and have a specific short-term goals. When they get fat and lazy they accumulate clerical staff, adjutants, yeomen, human resources termites, safety compliance gestapo, political cadres, diversity enforcement, personal assistants… the useless bureaucratic overhead will eventually grow to the limit of the organization to support it.

[shock] HERETIC! APOSTATE!
[points finger] REEEEEEE!!!

I regret to inform Kirk that if employees were working primarily for their own benefit, they would be working for themselves, as certainly they would not be working for their employer’s shareholders, and that if employee compensation were proportional to the value of the labor so compensated, this would be a grevious failure to maximize shareholder value.

Costs of living balloon as investments perform while employee compensation stagnates or declines because employees are not a meaningful constituency of capitalism.

Competence has no value. If only you owned the equity.

Sorry, playa.

Your school story is what always happens, in every organization of any type. You cannot remove these types of people from the population, and you cannot guarantee you haven’t recruited them. You must plan around these tendencies from the start. A hierarchy-less system explicitly fails to make any sort of plan for them – I’ve seen this exact thing happen in groups of pure volunteers that supposedly were all about love of the topic. The networks and cliques start forming and the whole thing eventually falls to pieces. You need at least one absolute authority at the top with the ability and wisdom to say “You, you’re pissing me off, get the hell out”. Without that, you can’t fix these systems.

Your army example exists in the context of a larger hierarchy that presumably could bleed off all the power-hungry. Like whoever it was said, it’s amazing what you can do if you don’t care who gets the credit – but that only takes you so far; you can’t organize a society on the basis of operating in the shadows with whatever power hasn’t been noticed.

If you really believe in the idea, go to it. All I’m saying is that I’ve repeatedly seen it blow up and I recommend against what will be a waste of time.

I’ve seen flat organizations in action, as subsets of a military hierarchy. They worked, and they worked better than the “Big Army” elements I was used to. The problem with them is that you have to have grown-ups without egos getting in the way to make them work. So long as you recruit and tolerate the immature and power-seeking, you’re going to have immature power-seekers running the show, because they’re inherently the most sociopathic and thus, most likely to wind up running things.

It’s an interesting phenomenon to observe; my friends school that she taught at early in her career was filled with some really sharp, dedicated teachers that only cared about the kids and teaching. Because none of them wanted to do the admin BS, as they saw it, they let the most incompetent and sociopathic individual among them move over to admin. I’ll leave extrapolating the results of that as an exercise for the reader… Took about ten years, but that incompetent venal bitch turned that school into a nightmare of petty BS that led directly to several early retirements and a suicide. The hierarchy failed there, as they always do.

Like the wise computer said in War Games, the only way to win is not to play the game.

A good part of the issue with changing things, though, is illustrated here: Because people can’t imagine anything else, they keep going back to the default. If you don’t want petty tyranny, then don’t support the friggin’ petty tyrants. At any level. What you tolerate is what you get more of, and if you’re going to put up with some rampant asshole telling you how to mow your lawn in the Homeowner’s Association, well… Yeah. You’re probably going to put up with Hugo Chavez types telling you how to run your business and life–Which will end about as satisfactorily as life under the HOA will.

I do not believe they are real. When I do see stories about a company that has supposedly implemented such a system, there are nearly often sufficient clues to indicate that there absolutely is a hierarchy, it just isn’t formal and explicit. Which therefore makes it far more abusable and difficult to navigate and understand, and therefore more evil.

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or just stupid? Someone working for a paycheck is working more for their own benefit than they are their employers, which is not the same thing as playing the self-sacrificing “Hero of Labor” and working yourself to death in the mines for the everlasting glory of the Motherland.

If you’re getting low wages and lousy conditions under capitalism, the sad fact is, that’s what the job is worth–If you want better, improve your skills. That’s what we call an incentive, and it doesn’t exist under socialism, which is why those economies went to shit over the long haul.