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	<title>Comments on: Administrative assistants did not do management, but managers did do administration</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3376111</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2021 18:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3376111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RMJ,

Your supervisors were punishing the complainers. It&#039;s that simple--They, and the complainer themselves, do not look at &quot;work&quot; as either a privilege or a pleasure; it&#039;s a punishment, to be levied out on those who annoy them. They probably preferred you as a congenial coffee-break partner, and wanted Mr. Complainy as far from the shop offices as possible.

The fact you don&#039;t &quot;get&quot; this instinctively is what makes you a superior worker and human being to both your &quot;superior&quot; and the &quot;complainers&quot; alike. The further fact that your workplace put the guy who&#039;d do that in charge of things, and didn&#039;t fire the complainers...? Telling. I would wonder if that firm was still even in business, because they obviously selected for different workplace behavior than that which would make the firm successful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RMJ,</p>
<p>Your supervisors were punishing the complainers. It&#8217;s that simple&#8211;They, and the complainer themselves, do not look at &#8220;work&#8221; as either a privilege or a pleasure; it&#8217;s a punishment, to be levied out on those who annoy them. They probably preferred you as a congenial coffee-break partner, and wanted Mr. Complainy as far from the shop offices as possible.</p>
<p>The fact you don&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; this instinctively is what makes you a superior worker and human being to both your &#8220;superior&#8221; and the &#8220;complainers&#8221; alike. The further fact that your workplace put the guy who&#8217;d do that in charge of things, and didn&#8217;t fire the complainers&#8230;? Telling. I would wonder if that firm was still even in business, because they obviously selected for different workplace behavior than that which would make the firm successful.</p>
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		<title>By: RMJ Tools</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3376109</link>
		<dc:creator>RMJ Tools</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3376109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I worked as an aircraft mechanic for about 15 years. I noticed after a while that job assignments almost inevitably went to the most unsuitable mechanic on the floor. One time a severely damaged Cessna 310 came it with severe damage to the nose and I had to beg and plead to my foreman to let me do the job, I actually wanted it and he was about to give it to one of the biggest complainers in the shop. Never really figured out this dynamic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked as an aircraft mechanic for about 15 years. I noticed after a while that job assignments almost inevitably went to the most unsuitable mechanic on the floor. One time a severely damaged Cessna 310 came it with severe damage to the nose and I had to beg and plead to my foreman to let me do the job, I actually wanted it and he was about to give it to one of the biggest complainers in the shop. Never really figured out this dynamic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375832</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2021 23:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting analysis here:

https://bombthrower.com/articles/the-age-of-over-abundant-elites/#

I do believe he&#039;s on to something...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting analysis here:</p>
<p><a href="https://bombthrower.com/articles/the-age-of-over-abundant-elites/#" >https://bombthrower.com/articles/the-age-of-over-abundant-elites/#</a></p>
<p>I do believe he&#8217;s on to something&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375830</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2021 22:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Eli,

It isn&#039;t the fault of the computer so much as it is the idjit class which fetishes the damn things, which they&#039;ve been doing since the WWII era.

There&#039;s nothing that a computer does that can&#039;t be done by a human being with a box of pencils and a few tons of paper--It&#039;s just that the computer makes it all happen a lot faster. And, cheaper--Back when you&#039;d have to pay an office full of file clerks and typists to produce those TPS reports, you had actual discipline going, in that it would cost you a small fortune for something that today eats up one man&#039;s time and costs whatever it does to move a bunch of electrons about the place. So, nobody tells the dipshit administrator that is asking for the TPS report to curb his desire for control...

Biggest thing we need to develop is an actual appreciation for what all these things cost, and some control over that &quot;drive to control&quot; which motivates all this inane BS. When the process becomes more important than the end result, you&#039;ve lost the bubble--And, that&#039;s pretty much true across our entire social structure today. Process, procedure, and everything ephemeral take precedence over actual result, which winds up ignored. If the math works, why, then... That must reflect reality. The issue is that we&#039;re doing it without real feedback getting back into the loop, so that we&#039;re more and more reliant on the delusions of the twice-removed to tell us how things are working out, out here in the real world.

There&#039;s a lesson here, if only we would bother to pay attention and learn it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eli,</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t the fault of the computer so much as it is the idjit class which fetishes the damn things, which they&#8217;ve been doing since the WWII era.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing that a computer does that can&#8217;t be done by a human being with a box of pencils and a few tons of paper&#8211;It&#8217;s just that the computer makes it all happen a lot faster. And, cheaper&#8211;Back when you&#8217;d have to pay an office full of file clerks and typists to produce those TPS reports, you had actual discipline going, in that it would cost you a small fortune for something that today eats up one man&#8217;s time and costs whatever it does to move a bunch of electrons about the place. So, nobody tells the dipshit administrator that is asking for the TPS report to curb his desire for control&#8230;</p>
<p>Biggest thing we need to develop is an actual appreciation for what all these things cost, and some control over that &#8220;drive to control&#8221; which motivates all this inane BS. When the process becomes more important than the end result, you&#8217;ve lost the bubble&#8211;And, that&#8217;s pretty much true across our entire social structure today. Process, procedure, and everything ephemeral take precedence over actual result, which winds up ignored. If the math works, why, then&#8230; That must reflect reality. The issue is that we&#8217;re doing it without real feedback getting back into the loop, so that we&#8217;re more and more reliant on the delusions of the twice-removed to tell us how things are working out, out here in the real world.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lesson here, if only we would bother to pay attention and learn it.</p>
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		<title>By: eli</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375829</link>
		<dc:creator>eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2021 20:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kirk makes some good points, i think.
I also remember learning about the existence of &quot;books&quot; such as &quot;Red Books&quot; and &quot;Blue Books&quot; _after_ i worked hours on recreating them.
Institutional knowledge is not passed on to successive generations due to reasons Kirk touched on, but the biggest frustration to educating the work force was a generation and a half that saw a process as totally different done on paper versus completed on a computer.
This is the generation that brought us &quot;wire fraud&quot;, because somehow fraud committed over the wire is somehow not fraud until there is a law against it.
So, to the author&#039;s point, computers were successful in wiping out whole corporations of institutional knowledge.
Because &quot;computer&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirk makes some good points, i think.<br />
I also remember learning about the existence of &#8220;books&#8221; such as &#8220;Red Books&#8221; and &#8220;Blue Books&#8221; _after_ i worked hours on recreating them.<br />
Institutional knowledge is not passed on to successive generations due to reasons Kirk touched on, but the biggest frustration to educating the work force was a generation and a half that saw a process as totally different done on paper versus completed on a computer.<br />
This is the generation that brought us &#8220;wire fraud&#8221;, because somehow fraud committed over the wire is somehow not fraud until there is a law against it.<br />
So, to the author&#8217;s point, computers were successful in wiping out whole corporations of institutional knowledge.<br />
Because &#8220;computer&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375737</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2021 00:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;“it’s difficult to say whether a shift towards higher wages with fewer hours will be a reality of the near future”&lt;/em&gt;

Would that maximize shareholder value?

(No.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>“it’s difficult to say whether a shift towards higher wages with fewer hours will be a reality of the near future”</em></p>
<p>Would that maximize shareholder value?</p>
<p>(No.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375710</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2021 01:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Customer service, which is certainly a form of knowledge work — at various levels depending on the specifics of the situation — is very highly organized and routinized in most companies of any size.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Customer service, which is certainly a form of knowledge work — at various levels depending on the specifics of the situation — is very highly organized and routinized in most companies of any size.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Basker</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375704</link>
		<dc:creator>Basker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375704</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are many more supporters for the shortened workday now than there were previously. Some studies show that the average worker is actually productive for less than half of the eight-hour workday (though the idea of productive is subjective, and it also depends on which industry the work is being done). 

It seems obvious that a combination of more sleep, more free leisure, and less time to accomplish deadlines would act as great motivators for workers. But the simple fact is that even if people hate working, they want the money. With upper administration being notoriously old-fashioned in many organizations, it&#039;s difficult to say whether a shift towards higher wages with fewer hours will be a reality of the near future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many more supporters for the shortened workday now than there were previously. Some studies show that the average worker is actually productive for less than half of the eight-hour workday (though the idea of productive is subjective, and it also depends on which industry the work is being done). </p>
<p>It seems obvious that a combination of more sleep, more free leisure, and less time to accomplish deadlines would act as great motivators for workers. But the simple fact is that even if people hate working, they want the money. With upper administration being notoriously old-fashioned in many organizations, it&#8217;s difficult to say whether a shift towards higher wages with fewer hours will be a reality of the near future.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375703</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cal Newport, a modern-day prophet to the knowledge workers working in the knowledge factory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cal Newport, a modern-day prophet to the knowledge workers working in the knowledge factory.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2021/04/administrative-assistants-did-not-do-management-but-managers-did-do-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-3375702</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=47764#comment-3375702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In other words, be careful what you wish for.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, be careful what you wish for.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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