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	<title>Comments on: If you can’t fight a fire, you’re not going to be a sailor</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Linda S. Fox</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3273808</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda S. Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2020 07:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3273808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It occurs to me that some professions don&#039;t receive that useful training.
- Cops - they learn to fire a gun and use the various crowd-control mechanisms, but never really practice working as a team, on using non-violent ways of diffusing conflict, or otherwise managing the work they will be doing most of their time on the job.
- Teachers - what to do when a fight breaks out (and, more importantly, recognizing pre-fight behavior, and preventing the fight from happening), how to triage the classes - who can work independently, who is just NOT going to put the effort in, and who are the group that needs most of your time, as they will benefit from your help. How to use the school rules effectively (for example, writing a discipline referral that gets acted on), and managing classroom behavior/hallway behavior. Would be useful for principals, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It occurs to me that some professions don&#8217;t receive that useful training.<br />
- Cops &#8211; they learn to fire a gun and use the various crowd-control mechanisms, but never really practice working as a team, on using non-violent ways of diffusing conflict, or otherwise managing the work they will be doing most of their time on the job.<br />
- Teachers &#8211; what to do when a fight breaks out (and, more importantly, recognizing pre-fight behavior, and preventing the fight from happening), how to triage the classes &#8211; who can work independently, who is just NOT going to put the effort in, and who are the group that needs most of your time, as they will benefit from your help. How to use the school rules effectively (for example, writing a discipline referral that gets acted on), and managing classroom behavior/hallway behavior. Would be useful for principals, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Ford</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3131579</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3131579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can you run an eleven-minute mile?

Do &lt;a href=&quot;https://i.ibb.co/ccCtGVN/UZAWEKZZYVBLBDORRVKIX2-BMFE.jpg&quot;&gt;these&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;https://i.ibb.co/tX3ZkwD/image.png&quot;&gt;fine&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;https://i.ibb.co/kHVSw9t/image.png&quot;&gt;specimens&lt;/a&gt;* look like your aspirational peer group?

Are you willing to sell your hide to the state for thirty thousand dollars annually?

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/24/not-your-daddys-boot-camp-why-great-lakes-got-tougher-2

Step right up! You may be a match!

Join the finest military establishment in the world, and you, too, can have the opportunity to...

Bring Freedom, Democracy, and Human Rights to the Middle East, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and, finishing off, Iran!

Guard poppy fields in Afghanistan!

Blow up goatherds from the air-conditioned comfort of an &lt;b&gt;exclusive&lt;/b&gt; Air Force facility in Nevada!

For all this and more, simply sign on the dotted line today!**

*These photographs are not even slightly cherry picked.

**Possible side effects include but are not limited to: loss of limb, loss of life, psychological trauma, chronic physical ailment, tattoos, disgusting sexual proclivities, adult-onset slave personality, bad breath, and mild rash. These side effects are uncommon, but you should check with your friendly neighborhood conflict-of-interest-free recruiter before signing any of his legally binding documents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you run an eleven-minute mile?</p>
<p>Do <a href="https://i.ibb.co/ccCtGVN/UZAWEKZZYVBLBDORRVKIX2-BMFE.jpg">these</a> <a href="https://i.ibb.co/tX3ZkwD/image.png">fine</a> <a href="https://i.ibb.co/kHVSw9t/image.png">specimens</a>* look like your aspirational peer group?</p>
<p>Are you willing to sell your hide to the state for thirty thousand dollars annually?</p>
<p><a href="https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/24/not-your-daddys-boot-camp-why-great-lakes-got-tougher-2" >https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/24/not-your-daddys-boot-camp-why-great-lakes-got-tougher-2</a></p>
<p>Step right up! You may be a match!</p>
<p>Join the finest military establishment in the world, and you, too, can have the opportunity to&#8230;</p>
<p>Bring Freedom, Democracy, and Human Rights to the Middle East, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and, finishing off, Iran!</p>
<p>Guard poppy fields in Afghanistan!</p>
<p>Blow up goatherds from the air-conditioned comfort of an <b>exclusive</b> Air Force facility in Nevada!</p>
<p>For all this and more, simply sign on the dotted line today!**</p>
<p>*These photographs are not even slightly cherry picked.</p>
<p>**Possible side effects include but are not limited to: loss of limb, loss of life, psychological trauma, chronic physical ailment, tattoos, disgusting sexual proclivities, adult-onset slave personality, bad breath, and mild rash. These side effects are uncommon, but you should check with your friendly neighborhood conflict-of-interest-free recruiter before signing any of his legally binding documents.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130694</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2020 02:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The question of &quot;Is this quality military training...?&quot; is one that has historically only been answered by the harsh reality of war.

Me? I look at the attrition/washout rate. If there is one...

Not everyone is suited to military life, or will be able to function well under duress. The training is meant to weed those men and women out, mentally and physically. The recruiters, I&#039;m sad to say, will take anything with a pulse that can pass the qualification gates, so don&#039;t look to that as a sieve. Initial Entry Training should be a place where that winnowing takes place, a metaphoric Lantern of Diogenes. When you look at the passage rates, you can get a fair idea if it is actually doing the job. Absent that, you get to wait until later in the serviceman&#039;s career, by which point you&#039;re also going to start losing other people who relied on that weak link.

It is an ugly thing, but I would rather take the approach that you&#039;re better off weeding them out early on, before they fail and take others with them.

Honestly can&#039;t appraise the current Army or Navy training, but I remain ever suspicious of anything like that which does not include a significant rejection rate. There has to be consequence for failure, accountability for performance--And, if soldier or sailor does not perform to standard, standards can not be relaxed in favor of passing them deeper into the system. High passage rates indicate low standards, especially with today&#039;s couch potato recruiting grounds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of &#8220;Is this quality military training&#8230;?&#8221; is one that has historically only been answered by the harsh reality of war.</p>
<p>Me? I look at the attrition/washout rate. If there is one&#8230;</p>
<p>Not everyone is suited to military life, or will be able to function well under duress. The training is meant to weed those men and women out, mentally and physically. The recruiters, I&#8217;m sad to say, will take anything with a pulse that can pass the qualification gates, so don&#8217;t look to that as a sieve. Initial Entry Training should be a place where that winnowing takes place, a metaphoric Lantern of Diogenes. When you look at the passage rates, you can get a fair idea if it is actually doing the job. Absent that, you get to wait until later in the serviceman&#8217;s career, by which point you&#8217;re also going to start losing other people who relied on that weak link.</p>
<p>It is an ugly thing, but I would rather take the approach that you&#8217;re better off weeding them out early on, before they fail and take others with them.</p>
<p>Honestly can&#8217;t appraise the current Army or Navy training, but I remain ever suspicious of anything like that which does not include a significant rejection rate. There has to be consequence for failure, accountability for performance&#8211;And, if soldier or sailor does not perform to standard, standards can not be relaxed in favor of passing them deeper into the system. High passage rates indicate low standards, especially with today&#8217;s couch potato recruiting grounds.</p>
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		<title>By: TGWATY</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130621</link>
		<dc:creator>TGWATY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2020 00:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I went through Great Lakes training in 1987. My son went through summer of 2019. And I was astounded by the quality of the training they receive now.  AND with the discipline and good attitudes they imparted. My son was genuinely inspired by his division commanders. This was a far cry from 1980s bootcamp, which really existed only to stress us and weed out the people who shouldn&#039;t be there. What training we got was merely formality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went through Great Lakes training in 1987. My son went through summer of 2019. And I was astounded by the quality of the training they receive now.  AND with the discipline and good attitudes they imparted. My son was genuinely inspired by his division commanders. This was a far cry from 1980s bootcamp, which really existed only to stress us and weed out the people who shouldn&#8217;t be there. What training we got was merely formality.</p>
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		<title>By: Aretae</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130598</link>
		<dc:creator>Aretae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2020 20:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m impressed by the idea, and also impressed by the criticisms of the heft of the idea I see here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m impressed by the idea, and also impressed by the criticisms of the heft of the idea I see here.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130526</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If they&#039;re actually embracing accountability and high standards, well... I&#039;m impressed.

Based on experience, however? I rather doubt they&#039;re actually shitcanning the unfit the way they should be. The female graduation rates alone tell us they probably aren&#039;t. Friend of mine was a Navy Chief; it was his despair that the brass had thrown out the standards when it came to damage control, and that there were so many on board who could not hack the basic tasks like moving pumps and other damage control equipment. He made a dire prediction that we&#039;d start losing ships because of crap like putting females who didn&#039;t have the upper body strength to do things like lift up pumps and haul hoselines into key damage control positions.

So, if they&#039;re actually doing this sort of thing, and discharging the incapable and inept, all to the good. I somehow suspect that they really aren&#039;t, however--If they were, we&#039;d be hearing all about how the sexist Navy was destroying women&#039;s careers. Which, I&#039;ll note, we aren&#039;t.

If our military ever does embrace actual reform, that will be the first sign of it: Massive amounts of bitching by the females who think that the military is a sinecure for them to have cute little careers with, rather than a national defense force vital to the survival of this nation. Don&#039;t hear that? There probably isn&#039;t any real &quot;reform&quot; going on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they&#8217;re actually embracing accountability and high standards, well&#8230; I&#8217;m impressed.</p>
<p>Based on experience, however? I rather doubt they&#8217;re actually shitcanning the unfit the way they should be. The female graduation rates alone tell us they probably aren&#8217;t. Friend of mine was a Navy Chief; it was his despair that the brass had thrown out the standards when it came to damage control, and that there were so many on board who could not hack the basic tasks like moving pumps and other damage control equipment. He made a dire prediction that we&#8217;d start losing ships because of crap like putting females who didn&#8217;t have the upper body strength to do things like lift up pumps and haul hoselines into key damage control positions.</p>
<p>So, if they&#8217;re actually doing this sort of thing, and discharging the incapable and inept, all to the good. I somehow suspect that they really aren&#8217;t, however&#8211;If they were, we&#8217;d be hearing all about how the sexist Navy was destroying women&#8217;s careers. Which, I&#8217;ll note, we aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>If our military ever does embrace actual reform, that will be the first sign of it: Massive amounts of bitching by the females who think that the military is a sinecure for them to have cute little careers with, rather than a national defense force vital to the survival of this nation. Don&#8217;t hear that? There probably isn&#8217;t any real &#8220;reform&#8221; going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Hoyos</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130491</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoyos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2020 15:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Navy has brilliant idea...teach sailors to actually sail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Navy has brilliant idea&#8230;teach sailors to actually sail.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130372</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Advanced civilization moves everything online, forgets basic skills like sailing ships, fighting fires, stopping pandemics, canning food.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Advanced civilization moves everything online, forgets basic skills like sailing ships, fighting fires, stopping pandemics, canning food.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130213</link>
		<dc:creator>Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I heartily endorse the changes. I served in the Navy, went to boot camp at &quot;Great Mistakes,&quot; and clearly remember USS MARLINESPIKE. Having been both through combat and a fire at sea, realistic training that combines the two would have been welcome. 

An after the fact recommendation, I admit.

So long as the potential for failure exists, and its consequences enforced, then this training will prove effective at preparing Sailors for emergencies.

This reform&#039;s effectiveness will weaken over time, but for now, it can only help.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heartily endorse the changes. I served in the Navy, went to boot camp at &#8220;Great Mistakes,&#8221; and clearly remember USS MARLINESPIKE. Having been both through combat and a fire at sea, realistic training that combines the two would have been welcome. </p>
<p>An after the fact recommendation, I admit.</p>
<p>So long as the potential for failure exists, and its consequences enforced, then this training will prove effective at preparing Sailors for emergencies.</p>
<p>This reform&#8217;s effectiveness will weaken over time, but for now, it can only help.</p>
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		<title>By: Albion</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/04/if-you-cant-fight-a-fire-youre-not-going-to-be-a-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-3130103</link>
		<dc:creator>Albion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46571#comment-3130103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They always say fire at sea is a sailor&#039;s worst enemy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They always say fire at sea is a sailor&#8217;s worst enemy.</p>
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