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	<title>Comments on: You can drive it underground, but you cannot stop it</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/02/you-can-drive-it-underground-but-you-cannot-stop-it/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: James Fulford</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/02/you-can-drive-it-underground-but-you-cannot-stop-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3059650</link>
		<dc:creator>James Fulford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Feb 2020 03:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[What Doyle was arguing against was a court case that said that a boxing competition between Jim Driscoll and Owen Moran was &quot;really&quot; a prize fight, which was illegal. 

I&#039;ll just stick the link to that here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Frederick_Bettinson#Driscoll_v_Moran

Doyle had a point. The illegal prizefighting of the early 19th century was hard to suppress, and Queensberry Rules fighting was supposed to be a civilized alternative. 

There are underground fights in New York City today (with gloves)and various illegal bareknuckle fights have been going on for years.

To bolster her argument that Judge John Sirica had a mob-connected background, Renata Adler pointed out that Sirica had been a boxer as a young man, and not only was that the most corrupt, mob-owned business in America, it was actually illegal while he was doing it:

&quot;As for the boxers themselves, in Washington, D.C., as it happens, all professional boxing was illegal–not just in 1921, when Sirica began, but throughout the years he was boxing there–until 1934, when Congress finally legalized it in the District. Professional boxing in Washington, in other words, was a violation of the criminal statute. That Sirica knew this is beyond doubt. All the years he boxed professionally in the District before 1934 he used, although he does not mention this either, fictitious names. It is, of course, possible to be a criminal without ties to organized crime–a pickpocket, say, or a burglar. Illegal boxing, however, requires payoffs....&quot; 

Letting the point about Sirica slide, I repeat, Doyle was not kidding about the possibility of boxing continuing to exist when banned. It had happened before him, it would happen after him, and it&#039;s happening today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Doyle was arguing against was a court case that said that a boxing competition between Jim Driscoll and Owen Moran was &#8220;really&#8221; a prize fight, which was illegal. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll just stick the link to that here:<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Frederick_Bettinson#Driscoll_v_Moran" >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Frederick_Bettinson#Driscoll_v_Moran</a></p>
<p>Doyle had a point. The illegal prizefighting of the early 19th century was hard to suppress, and Queensberry Rules fighting was supposed to be a civilized alternative. </p>
<p>There are underground fights in New York City today (with gloves)and various illegal bareknuckle fights have been going on for years.</p>
<p>To bolster her argument that Judge John Sirica had a mob-connected background, Renata Adler pointed out that Sirica had been a boxer as a young man, and not only was that the most corrupt, mob-owned business in America, it was actually illegal while he was doing it:</p>
<p>&#8220;As for the boxers themselves, in Washington, D.C., as it happens, all professional boxing was illegal–not just in 1921, when Sirica began, but throughout the years he was boxing there–until 1934, when Congress finally legalized it in the District. Professional boxing in Washington, in other words, was a violation of the criminal statute. That Sirica knew this is beyond doubt. All the years he boxed professionally in the District before 1934 he used, although he does not mention this either, fictitious names. It is, of course, possible to be a criminal without ties to organized crime–a pickpocket, say, or a burglar. Illegal boxing, however, requires payoffs&#8230;.&#8221; </p>
<p>Letting the point about Sirica slide, I repeat, Doyle was not kidding about the possibility of boxing continuing to exist when banned. It had happened before him, it would happen after him, and it&#8217;s happening today.</p>
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		<title>By: The Dividualist</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/02/you-can-drive-it-underground-but-you-cannot-stop-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3054868</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dividualist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2020 17:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=46272#comment-3054868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Even gays weren&#039;t as... gay in 1911 as today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even gays weren&#8217;t as&#8230; gay in 1911 as today.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/02/you-can-drive-it-underground-but-you-cannot-stop-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3054834</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2020 15:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[On the other hand boxing does seem to have declined in its cultural presence since the 1980s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand boxing does seem to have declined in its cultural presence since the 1980s.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/02/you-can-drive-it-underground-but-you-cannot-stop-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3054833</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2020 15:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Interesting.

I haven&#039;t read Rodney Stone. 

I can&#039;t remember if I mentioned on this site the story I did read recently, The Master of Croxley or The Croxley Master. 

Doyle&#039;s love of boxing certainly came through in it, from his details of the fight from the perspective of one of the combatants, to his ringside perspective, to his recounting of the nuances of boxing as a trade and a business and a social network. 

I had had no real interest in the topic and was just cruising through Doyle stories on Project Gutenberg. But I found that story far more engaging than I expected I would.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read Rodney Stone. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t remember if I mentioned on this site the story I did read recently, The Master of Croxley or The Croxley Master. </p>
<p>Doyle&#8217;s love of boxing certainly came through in it, from his details of the fight from the perspective of one of the combatants, to his ringside perspective, to his recounting of the nuances of boxing as a trade and a business and a social network. </p>
<p>I had had no real interest in the topic and was just cruising through Doyle stories on Project Gutenberg. But I found that story far more engaging than I expected I would.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sykes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2020/02/you-can-drive-it-underground-but-you-cannot-stop-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3054799</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2020 13:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Aesthetically, I much prefer boxing to MMA or pro &quot;wrestling,&quot; although I used to watch Gorgeous George, Hay Stack Calhoun, and Andre the Giant in my youth. But then, I grew up watching the Gillette Friday night fights with my dad, and lost $5 on the Clay-Liston fight. Liston threw those fights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aesthetically, I much prefer boxing to MMA or pro &#8220;wrestling,&#8221; although I used to watch Gorgeous George, Hay Stack Calhoun, and Andre the Giant in my youth. But then, I grew up watching the Gillette Friday night fights with my dad, and lost $5 on the Clay-Liston fight. Liston threw those fights.</p>
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