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	<title>Comments on: One scary adverse event could cripple the whole enterprise</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: CVLR</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974468</link>
		<dc:creator>CVLR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Sep 2019 19:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, over the past half-century or so, sperm production has taken a massive dive, and the water, in the immortal words of Alex Jones, really is turning the frickin’ frogs gay. There’s no shortage of studies to either effect on Google Scholar.

It’d be a pretty ingenuous way of suppressing discontent, if it were intentional.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, over the past half-century or so, sperm production has taken a massive dive, and the water, in the immortal words of Alex Jones, really is turning the frickin’ frogs gay. There’s no shortage of studies to either effect on Google Scholar.</p>
<p>It’d be a pretty ingenuous way of suppressing discontent, if it were intentional.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974447</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Sep 2019 18:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We marvel at the casual and cavalier way the Romans used lead in everything, and in how much lead wound up in their diet/environment.

I strongly suspect that future generations are going to look at our casual and unthinking use of estrogen-like compounds in our industrial operations as being the equivalent--And, that they&#039;re going to look at what we&#039;re doing with the brain chemistry of our mentally ill as being tantamount to the trepanning and bizarre ideas of Medieval medicine regarding humours and other such-like fantasies.

None of this sh*t strikes me as being well-advised; we just don&#039;t know enough. I look at the current behavior patterns I observe in young males everywhere, and the effeminacy/dysfunction I see in what a lot of them are doing strikes me as possibly being hormone-related. Likewise, the females; they&#039;re having their natural levels of testosterone suppressed by all the estrogen-like compounds, and are fudging up their natural balances between the two yin/yang sides of the equation, and that&#039;s where a lot of the dysfunction we see around us derives from.

Give it a few generations, and I bet we start to see studies proving that all out. What to do about it? No idea, but I think production and use of a lot of these compounds needs to be curtailed severely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We marvel at the casual and cavalier way the Romans used lead in everything, and in how much lead wound up in their diet/environment.</p>
<p>I strongly suspect that future generations are going to look at our casual and unthinking use of estrogen-like compounds in our industrial operations as being the equivalent&#8211;And, that they&#8217;re going to look at what we&#8217;re doing with the brain chemistry of our mentally ill as being tantamount to the trepanning and bizarre ideas of Medieval medicine regarding humours and other such-like fantasies.</p>
<p>None of this sh*t strikes me as being well-advised; we just don&#8217;t know enough. I look at the current behavior patterns I observe in young males everywhere, and the effeminacy/dysfunction I see in what a lot of them are doing strikes me as possibly being hormone-related. Likewise, the females; they&#8217;re having their natural levels of testosterone suppressed by all the estrogen-like compounds, and are fudging up their natural balances between the two yin/yang sides of the equation, and that&#8217;s where a lot of the dysfunction we see around us derives from.</p>
<p>Give it a few generations, and I bet we start to see studies proving that all out. What to do about it? No idea, but I think production and use of a lot of these compounds needs to be curtailed severely.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Jones</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974416</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My approach to the liberty dilemma: let the patient have it either way he wants so long as he&#039;s not allowed to have it both ways. An experimental treatment will be entirely voluntary, and with the patient confined to a secure facility. He can choose to quit any time and walk out the door, but he can&#039;t walk out the door without quitting first.

Have him sign an agreement to the effect to keep the lawyers at bay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My approach to the liberty dilemma: let the patient have it either way he wants so long as he&#8217;s not allowed to have it both ways. An experimental treatment will be entirely voluntary, and with the patient confined to a secure facility. He can choose to quit any time and walk out the door, but he can&#8217;t walk out the door without quitting first.</p>
<p>Have him sign an agreement to the effect to keep the lawyers at bay.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974286</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2019 18:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All I&#039;d advocate for is keeping people on medical observation under controlled circumstances until you&#039;re done whacking them on the side of the head with chemical hammers.

The free-form open-area experiment methodology that they seem to be so fond of? I&#039;m not too happy with that crap, especially since they use medical privacy laws to keep everyone around them from knowing what&#039;s going on.

You want to screw with brain chemistry, you need to be doing it under controlled medical supervision, not out in the public sphere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I&#8217;d advocate for is keeping people on medical observation under controlled circumstances until you&#8217;re done whacking them on the side of the head with chemical hammers.</p>
<p>The free-form open-area experiment methodology that they seem to be so fond of? I&#8217;m not too happy with that crap, especially since they use medical privacy laws to keep everyone around them from knowing what&#8217;s going on.</p>
<p>You want to screw with brain chemistry, you need to be doing it under controlled medical supervision, not out in the public sphere.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Jones</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974284</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2019 18:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Far be it from me to defend the psycho-pharmaceutical racket. But what&#039;s the alternative? When you&#039;re out of ideas, whack it with a hammer.

I&#039;ve known a few people who ought to have been locked up, but society lacks the will to lock them up. All in all, I prefer the authorities err on the side of civil liberties rather than err on the other side. But they do err.

I&#039;ve known people with issues tell me there should be more mental health care. When I press for details, it turns out they mean more of the same. More drugs, at lower cost. No one has any better ideas.

Human, all too human.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Far be it from me to defend the psycho-pharmaceutical racket. But what&#8217;s the alternative? When you&#8217;re out of ideas, whack it with a hammer.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known a few people who ought to have been locked up, but society lacks the will to lock them up. All in all, I prefer the authorities err on the side of civil liberties rather than err on the other side. But they do err.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known people with issues tell me there should be more mental health care. When I press for details, it turns out they mean more of the same. More drugs, at lower cost. No one has any better ideas.</p>
<p>Human, all too human.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974275</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m all for doing what we can to help the mentally ill and psychically damaged, but... Good grief, this is at the level of &quot;Whack it with a hammer, see if that helps...&quot;.

I do not trust the level of knowledge we&#039;re at with anything as delicate as a human mind. We just don&#039;t know enough, and the fact that a lot of these experimenters think they do is mind-bogglingly frightening. It&#039;s not just that they&#039;re screwing around with things they don&#039;t understand, it&#039;s that they&#039;re actively telling people that they do know what the hell they&#039;re doing. Which they don&#039;t.

The way that a lot of this &quot;cutting-edge research&quot; winds up being implemented ought to give us pause; out in the real world, where &quot;medical professionals&quot; are prescribing these psychoactive substances, it&#039;s usually something like &quot;OK, here&#039;s a prescription for 3mg of X, try it for three weeks, then come back and we&#039;ll evaluate...&quot;. Trouble is, the doctors aren&#039;t out actually observing the actual real-world effects of the drugs, they&#039;re relying on the patient self-reporting--And, that patient is the one on the drugs!! Nobody goes out to ask peers/managers/spouses if they&#039;ve seen any changes in behavior, or what those might have been.

Frankly, I think that anyone prescribed psychoactives of any kind ought to be in a residential program with full-time observation by professionals. The way they do it now, for &quot;therapeutic purposes&quot; is completely bug-f*ckingly insane. I&#039;ve watched guys I worked with in the Army go on this inexplicable hell-ride on a roller-coaster of emotional and cognitional changes, only to later discover that my &quot;disciplinary problem&quot; had its roots in some quack with a white jacket conducting free-form biochemical experiments on them.

I remain highly dubious of the entire proposition, and would not under any circumstance suggest that it&#039;s either ethical or wise to inflict these &quot;cures&quot; on the general public the way they are. The really frightening thing is when you go into the literature and research the crap they&#039;re using, and you find that most of it is highly suspect and with really abysmal numbers behind it all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for doing what we can to help the mentally ill and psychically damaged, but&#8230; Good grief, this is at the level of &#8220;Whack it with a hammer, see if that helps&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>I do not trust the level of knowledge we&#8217;re at with anything as delicate as a human mind. We just don&#8217;t know enough, and the fact that a lot of these experimenters think they do is mind-bogglingly frightening. It&#8217;s not just that they&#8217;re screwing around with things they don&#8217;t understand, it&#8217;s that they&#8217;re actively telling people that they do know what the hell they&#8217;re doing. Which they don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The way that a lot of this &#8220;cutting-edge research&#8221; winds up being implemented ought to give us pause; out in the real world, where &#8220;medical professionals&#8221; are prescribing these psychoactive substances, it&#8217;s usually something like &#8220;OK, here&#8217;s a prescription for 3mg of X, try it for three weeks, then come back and we&#8217;ll evaluate&#8230;&#8221;. Trouble is, the doctors aren&#8217;t out actually observing the actual real-world effects of the drugs, they&#8217;re relying on the patient self-reporting&#8211;And, that patient is the one on the drugs!! Nobody goes out to ask peers/managers/spouses if they&#8217;ve seen any changes in behavior, or what those might have been.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think that anyone prescribed psychoactives of any kind ought to be in a residential program with full-time observation by professionals. The way they do it now, for &#8220;therapeutic purposes&#8221; is completely bug-f*ckingly insane. I&#8217;ve watched guys I worked with in the Army go on this inexplicable hell-ride on a roller-coaster of emotional and cognitional changes, only to later discover that my &#8220;disciplinary problem&#8221; had its roots in some quack with a white jacket conducting free-form biochemical experiments on them.</p>
<p>I remain highly dubious of the entire proposition, and would not under any circumstance suggest that it&#8217;s either ethical or wise to inflict these &#8220;cures&#8221; on the general public the way they are. The really frightening thing is when you go into the literature and research the crap they&#8217;re using, and you find that most of it is highly suspect and with really abysmal numbers behind it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Jones</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/09/one-scary-adverse-event-could-cripple-the-whole-enterprise/comment-page-1/#comment-2974263</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45576#comment-2974263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Uncertain work? People already self medicate with alcohol. Could this be any worse?

Prohibition tried to save people from themselves. That didn&#039;t turn out so well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncertain work? People already self medicate with alcohol. Could this be any worse?</p>
<p>Prohibition tried to save people from themselves. That didn&#8217;t turn out so well.</p>
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