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	<title>Comments on: The whole point is sacrifice</title>
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	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: B.J. Dubbs</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969902</link>
		<dc:creator>B.J. Dubbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Aug 2019 13:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The right has been saying this for a long time, but it&#039;s interesting that the left is beginning to agree. For a long time the left saw recycling as a kind of consciousness raising that might be practically ineffective but now you&#039;re more likely to hear leftists say &quot;This is bullshit. This is just neoliberal pseudo-politics that pretends to change the world but actually changes nothing.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The right has been saying this for a long time, but it&#8217;s interesting that the left is beginning to agree. For a long time the left saw recycling as a kind of consciousness raising that might be practically ineffective but now you&#8217;re more likely to hear leftists say &#8220;This is bullshit. This is just neoliberal pseudo-politics that pretends to change the world but actually changes nothing.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Slovenian Guest</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969745</link>
		<dc:creator>Slovenian Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a luxury even, because we are paying for the privilege! I remember we were told how recycling would lover our trash collecting bill, now a few years down the road we pay triple, and the garbage collectors wake me up every day, not just one day out of the week. But the worst are probably the millions of man hours of productivity lost to this.

I highly recommend watching:
&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.bitchute.com/video/j0Hd6UfA4MKo/&quot;&gt;PENN &amp; TELLER: BULLSHIT, RECYCLING&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a luxury even, because we are paying for the privilege! I remember we were told how recycling would lover our trash collecting bill, now a few years down the road we pay triple, and the garbage collectors wake me up every day, not just one day out of the week. But the worst are probably the millions of man hours of productivity lost to this.</p>
<p>I highly recommend watching:<br />
<a href="https://www.bitchute.com/video/j0Hd6UfA4MKo/">PENN &amp; TELLER: BULLSHIT, RECYCLING</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jay Dee</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969428</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2019 19:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An outdoorsman respects the environment and disposes of their trash responsibly.

Part of the issue with recycling is that the government is locked into one mode of thinking.  Glass containers must be recycled into glass containers.  When this doesn&#039;t work, then the glass is landfilled rather than used in place of gravel in asphalt and concrete.

Theoretically plastic shopping bags can be recycled into more shopping bags if the originals are clean enough.  If. 

Plastic shopping bags can be processed into a lumber substitute which works very well.   Another interesting use for plastic shopping bags is asphalt.  The bags are slit into long strips and mixed into asphalt.  The bags improve the durability of asphalt roadways.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An outdoorsman respects the environment and disposes of their trash responsibly.</p>
<p>Part of the issue with recycling is that the government is locked into one mode of thinking.  Glass containers must be recycled into glass containers.  When this doesn&#8217;t work, then the glass is landfilled rather than used in place of gravel in asphalt and concrete.</p>
<p>Theoretically plastic shopping bags can be recycled into more shopping bags if the originals are clean enough.  If. </p>
<p>Plastic shopping bags can be processed into a lumber substitute which works very well.   Another interesting use for plastic shopping bags is asphalt.  The bags are slit into long strips and mixed into asphalt.  The bags improve the durability of asphalt roadways.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969347</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wang Wei Lin,

Well put, though your first sentence reminded me of that Mad Men episode in which the Draper family picnicked in the park and, at the end, just shook the blanket into the grass with all garbage untended.

Presumably they assumed some park worker would come by with a stick eventually, or perhaps there were no receptacles then. The 60s is a bit before my time. By the 70s and 80s we had garbage cans in the parks in Toronto. Or maybe they just didn&#039;t care.

Many people at the time of the episode suggested that&#039;s how it actually was in those times, prior to the anti-littering campaigns of the late 60s and early 70s.

I remember thinking, wow, there&#039;s a PR-facilitated social transformation I could get behind. When I was a kid in the 70s I was also fascinated by the lingering practice of throwing garbage out of a moving car into the ditch at the side of the highway. 

I&#039;m not exactly a champion of green causes, but I can&#039;t get into the headspace of piggishly [metaphor, no insult to pig hygiene] tossing one&#039;s crap everywhere and moving on. Maybe if I were an outdoorsman, I&#039;d have trouble with the necessity of carting out actual human waste from some environments, but other than that I&#039;m down with tidiness.

Although, it does occur to me that this sort of concern is largely an artifact of the age of packaged goods, relatively new still in the 60s. If your picnic had consisted entirely of home cooked foods, fruits, and similar organic matter served on non disposable dining ware, as once was the case, then I guess leaving a little organic waste around might still seem gross to us now but is at least biodegradable and in the long human tradition. 

All in all, I&#039;m pleased to have at least one example of social change orchestrated by government and non-profit entities and the media that I can support.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wang Wei Lin,</p>
<p>Well put, though your first sentence reminded me of that Mad Men episode in which the Draper family picnicked in the park and, at the end, just shook the blanket into the grass with all garbage untended.</p>
<p>Presumably they assumed some park worker would come by with a stick eventually, or perhaps there were no receptacles then. The 60s is a bit before my time. By the 70s and 80s we had garbage cans in the parks in Toronto. Or maybe they just didn&#8217;t care.</p>
<p>Many people at the time of the episode suggested that&#8217;s how it actually was in those times, prior to the anti-littering campaigns of the late 60s and early 70s.</p>
<p>I remember thinking, wow, there&#8217;s a PR-facilitated social transformation I could get behind. When I was a kid in the 70s I was also fascinated by the lingering practice of throwing garbage out of a moving car into the ditch at the side of the highway. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not exactly a champion of green causes, but I can&#8217;t get into the headspace of piggishly [metaphor, no insult to pig hygiene] tossing one&#8217;s crap everywhere and moving on. Maybe if I were an outdoorsman, I&#8217;d have trouble with the necessity of carting out actual human waste from some environments, but other than that I&#8217;m down with tidiness.</p>
<p>Although, it does occur to me that this sort of concern is largely an artifact of the age of packaged goods, relatively new still in the 60s. If your picnic had consisted entirely of home cooked foods, fruits, and similar organic matter served on non disposable dining ware, as once was the case, then I guess leaving a little organic waste around might still seem gross to us now but is at least biodegradable and in the long human tradition. </p>
<p>All in all, I&#8217;m pleased to have at least one example of social change orchestrated by government and non-profit entities and the media that I can support.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969343</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In future I must remember to offer a submissive hand gesture to Mother Gaia when shoving my plastics into the blue bin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In future I must remember to offer a submissive hand gesture to Mother Gaia when shoving my plastics into the blue bin.</p>
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		<title>By: Dick Illyes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969295</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick Illyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thermal depolymerization seemed to have great promise but has vanished from the discussion.  I followed the test for turkey guts in Missouri and it seemed that it was the victim of unusual governmental interference.  Claims of odor problems  seemed made up, and the corn ethanol mania overwhelmed everything.  

Commercial hog farms would totally fail the same tests, and probably commercial sized chicken and  turkey operations.  A favorite comment from that era was that a commercial hog operation announced that they had cut odor emissions in half.  What formerly smelled like 60,000 hogs now only smelled like 30,000.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thermal depolymerization seemed to have great promise but has vanished from the discussion.  I followed the test for turkey guts in Missouri and it seemed that it was the victim of unusual governmental interference.  Claims of odor problems  seemed made up, and the corn ethanol mania overwhelmed everything.  </p>
<p>Commercial hog farms would totally fail the same tests, and probably commercial sized chicken and  turkey operations.  A favorite comment from that era was that a commercial hog operation announced that they had cut odor emissions in half.  What formerly smelled like 60,000 hogs now only smelled like 30,000.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike in Boston</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2969068</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Boston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2019 03:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=45525#comment-2969068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;If something passes the profit test, it’s likely already being done.&lt;/i&gt;

Here in eastern Massachusetts, I am told that haulers charge a municipality less to dispose of single stream recycling than to dispose of garbage. So recycling passes, if not a profit test, then at least a cost test. Although it is conceivable that this is due to some other market distortion somewhere.

All this nonsense would be moot if we had working plasma gasification of garbage, but I haven&#039;t heard much about that since &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.aiche.org/chenected/2012/08/high-powered-plasma-turns-garbage-gas&quot;&gt;back in 2012&lt;/a&gt;. InEnTec, the outfit featured in that link &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.inentec.com/about-inentec/inentec-story/&quot;&gt;hasn&#039;t had a press release since 2017&lt;/a&gt;. Hopefully someone else has picked up the, er, flame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If something passes the profit test, it’s likely already being done.</i></p>
<p>Here in eastern Massachusetts, I am told that haulers charge a municipality less to dispose of single stream recycling than to dispose of garbage. So recycling passes, if not a profit test, then at least a cost test. Although it is conceivable that this is due to some other market distortion somewhere.</p>
<p>All this nonsense would be moot if we had working plasma gasification of garbage, but I haven&#8217;t heard much about that since <a href="https://www.aiche.org/chenected/2012/08/high-powered-plasma-turns-garbage-gas">back in 2012</a>. InEnTec, the outfit featured in that link <a href="http://www.inentec.com/about-inentec/inentec-story/">hasn&#8217;t had a press release since 2017</a>. Hopefully someone else has picked up the, er, flame.</p>
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		<title>By: Wang Wei Lin</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/08/the-whole-point-is-sacrifice/comment-page-1/#comment-2968911</link>
		<dc:creator>Wang Wei Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2019 00:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Since civilized countries generally try not to crap in their nests by cleaning up after themselves the ultimate measure of recycling efficiency is cost. It&#039;s that simple.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since civilized countries generally try not to crap in their nests by cleaning up after themselves the ultimate measure of recycling efficiency is cost. It&#8217;s that simple.</p>
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