Otherwise, the whole idea of something like the V-2 becomes an exercise in credulity. Seriously–A one-time use weapon, capable of delivering a little less than an ton of high explosives–At a cost per shot fired that was arguably at least the equivalent of a B-17 that could deliver more explosives multiple times…? Are we to believe that nobody in the Nazi hierarchy was getting briefed on these (then) science-fictional systems and then doing some minute-of-napkin math to go “Uhhhmmmm… Guys? Guys…? This doesn’t make any damn sense, at all…”.

The Nazis were nuts. I’ll grant that. Were they really that nuts? Seriously–If you think I’m exaggerating things, go do some quick research on what the V-2 program cost the Germans, in terms of foodstuffs alone for the alcohol they used. It’s ‘effing mind-boggling. So mind-boggling that the outside premise of the system makes no damn sense, whatsoever.

Which is why I am more than slightly open to the idea that they at least thought they had a war-winning city-buster to put on top of the damn things. The idea that they’d somehow merely rely on conventional explosives, and be able to lob enough of those damn things into London and other targets to do more than annoy the locals…? Flatly ludicrous. I’ll buy “insanity”, when we talk about the Nazis, but… That’s a level of “bugf**k nuts” that I just can’t wrap my head around.

Of course, when you factor in all the things like the Maus tank, the insistence on running trains to keep the Holocaust going while the Allies were bombing the Fatherland flat, and… Well, yeah; maybe. But, it’s still really insane.

You make a lot of very good points. In particular: “Which argues that they had something, somewhere, that would have been as effective as what we dropped on Hiroshima.”

I find that plausible, but there’s a hidden point in there. Are you suggesting that there may be something else, equally effective?

Also, and paraphrasing: “V-2s, B-29s, I-400s”. Three very different delivery methods for possibly the very same thing. What would have been the relative power of each, do you think?

#1 is absolutely true of course. But there’s a tiny little fly in this ointment. I don’t see how I, personally have benefited from the immiseration of the Old World and of Christendom more generally, nor do I see how America the civilization, America the culture, America the bloodline have benefited therefrom. And all this, to say nothing of the ultimate outcome we can today see growing rapidly in Malmö, Paris, London, or all the little English hamlets.

#2: There were a lot of plans. I don’t know the specifics, really. But I do have the superpower of a century of hindsight.

#3: Fine by me, if we could have kept it.

&c: To be sure, there’s plenty of blame to go around. Wilhelm III, for example, can go hang, and there are many others similarly gullible, negligent, or naïve, to let our present timeline befall us. Nelson Aldrich, the archetypal progressive, is one worthy of special mention, may he have his eyes daily pecked out by an eagle whilst chained to a stripper pole in a fiery pit until the end of time.

…

I myself subscribed to the Puritan Hypothesis for quite a while, but for me it began to crumble when I did some reading on the history of college admissions of the 20th century.

Sometime thereafter I read some of the things the so-called “WASPs” actually wrote. I didn’t find the self-flagellatory angst promised by Yarvin. Instead I found, in the main, a race of men of will-full temperament, concerned with much the same things as the Germans were concerned about.

Take, for instance, the case of Cornell graduate, president of Indiana University, and Stanford’s founding president, David Starr Jordan. To quote Wikipedia, as a professor of zoology, he taught:

…his version of eugenics, which “sought to prevent the decay of the Anglo-Saxon/Nordic race by limiting racial mixing and by preventing the reproduction of those…unfit”.

He also produced gems such as this:

…”all [25 billion of the war debt in Europe] owed to the unseen vampire, and which the nations will never pay and which taxes poor people 95 million dollars a year.”

“The unseen vampire.”

Jordan was president of the World Peace Foundation from 1910 to 1914 and president of the World Peace Conference in 1915, and opposed U.S. involvement in World War I.

And he was hardly alone.

…

As an aside, if you’re thinking that in my use of the phrase “certain unmentionable plagues”, I’m implicitly scapegoating an entire race, let me disabuse you of that false and perfidious notion. I’m thinking mostly of international finance. I in no way endorse crimethink, and if you’re experiencing a bit of crimestop reflex as a result of those two concepts in close proximity… not my problem. =)

…

As to whether the early-20th-century bankers throwing their weight around the Old World were American… certainly these things are open to interpretation.

Paul Moritz Warburg (August 10, 1868 – January 24, 1932) was an American investment banker born in Germany, and an early advocate of the U.S. Federal Reserve System.

Thanks, Central Europe.

On October 1, 1895, Warburg was married in New York City to Nina J. Loeb, daughter of Solomon Loeb, founder of the New York investment firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Co.The Warburgs were the parents of a son, James Paul Warburg, and a daughter, Bettina Warburg Grimson.

James:

James Paul Warburg (August 18, 1896 – June 3, 1969) was a German-born Bavarian-American banker. He was well known for being the financial adviser to Franklin D. Roosevelt. His father was banker Paul Warburg, member of the Warburg family and “father” of the Federal Reserve system. After World War II, Warburg helped organize the Society for the Prevention of World War III in support of the Morgenthau Plan.
…
Warburg left government in 1934, having come to oppose certain policies of the New Deal.

His career’s nadir was mild and brief.

He was opposed to political non-interventionism, however, and re-entered government service in 1941 as Special Assistant to the Coordinator of Information, William Joseph Donovan. In 1942, when propaganda responsibilities were transferred to the Office of War Information, he became its Overseas Branch Deputy Director.

The Office of the Coordinator of Information and the Office of War Information, naturally, were both predecessor institutions of the State Department and CIA.

Returning to the father:

Although a major factor in German finance, after frequent business trips to New York Warburg settled there in 1902 as a partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Co., where the influential Jacob Schiff, his brother’s (Felix Warburg) father-in-law, was senior partner. Warburg remained a partner in the family firm in Hamburg, but he became a naturalized American citizen in 1911. He was a member of Temple Emanu-El in New York City.

I can acknowledge that according to a certain viewpoint, despite his naturalization at 43 years of age, he was more American than many Americans.

Kuhn, Loeb & Co., interestingly enough, was itself founded just two years after the Civil War.

Abraham Kuhn:

Abraham Kuhn (June 20, 1819 – May 30, 1892) was an American merchant and banker of German-Bavarian origins, a founding partner of Kuhn, Loeb & Co. of New York City, one of the great US investment banking firms of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Solomon Loeb:

Solomon Loeb (June 29, 1828 – December 12, 1903) was a German-born American banker and businessman. He was a merchant in textiles and later a banker with Kuhn, Loeb & Co.

…

Poke a stick in the Wikipedian anthill and swirl it around. If I were to try to make it all up for a novel, I wouldn’t be able to match what are just the plain facts.

Here’s another:

Solomon Loeb, married Fanny Kuhn, sister of Abraham Kuhn, and later Betty Gallenberg[, producing (among other issue),] Therese Loeb (1854–1933), married Jacob Schiff (1847–1920), banker

Jacob Schiff, of course:

Born in Frankfurt, Germany, Schiff migrated to the United States after the American Civil War and joined the firm Kuhn, Loeb & Co.
…
helped finance the expansion of American railroads and the Japanese [defeat of] Russia in the Russo-Japanese War
…
His father, Moses Schiff, was a broker for the Rothschilds.
…
Schiff was educated in the schools of Frankfurt and was first employed in the banking and brokerage business as an apprentice in 1861.
…
He was elected a director of Wells Fargo in September 1914 to succeed his brother-in-law, Paul Warburg, who had resigned to accept appointment to the original Federal Reserve Board.
…
[he personally gave 500 million inflation-adjusted dollars to vault the Bolsheviks to power]

It just goes on and on.

All in all, it seems to me that this particular clique came across the sea during the latter half of the 19th century, and had by the early 20th century developed enough influence to sponsor the execution of the Caesar in Imperial Russia and hypnotize political naïfs like Woodrow Wilson into both establishing a central bank on their behalf and obliterating the seat of Christendom.

You know, maybe I’m just speaking for myself here, but if there’s one thing worthy of respect, it’s raw chutzpah∞.

P.S. Here’s a little fun for the whole family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_People%27s_Money_and_How_the_Bankers_Use_It

Notice in particular that Louis “first diverse member of the Supreme Court” Brandeis’s solution to the problem of too much economic centralization was, wait for it… the ultimate economic centralization.

The hints are in the things that we’ve explained away as “irrational Nazi behavior”. I look at the completely nutso Nazi V-program weapons, and the only thing that makes any sense to me is that they really thought they had something coming along that would have to be capable of one-shotting a good chunk of city, if not destroying it entirely. The V-2 program, in particular–For the expense, which was a significantly greater part of the German wartime economy than the US B-29 program (which some calculations have at 3 billion dollars vs. 2 billion for Manhattan…), the sheer illogic of building a disposable delivery system for close to a ton of high explosives…? Surely, there was someone sitting in a briefing, somewhere, who raised his hand and said “Hey… Uh… How does the math work on this, again…?”.

There was too much else like that in the system, for the Germans to have been actually planning on just using conventional explosives for those weapons. Which argues that they had something, somewhere, that would have been as effective as what we dropped on Hiroshima. There are similar clues in Japan, particularly when you look at the I-400 subs.

It would have been in the interest of the Allies, after the war, to have done all they could to cover up the existence of these programs, in the name of suppressing the technology. As well, it’s also possible that they missed a bunch of stuff out of sheer arrogance, particularly with the Japanese. There are intriguing hints of things from Japanese physicists who were sidelined and ignored after the war, mostly because nobody wanted to admit that they were just as smart as we were. Also, a lot of the work was done in North Korea, behind the Iron Curtain, so the sites were never investigated properly.

Were there German and Japanese bomb programs? No idea, but from what I can see, the leadership in both countries behaved as though there were.

Yes, sometimes I think the rot had set in in the US, Britain, and my own little Canada a little too much already then.

And contrary to some common sentiments, a fairly large number seem to have been members of a variety of what now might be called mainline Protestant denominations.

The thing that always strikes me is that I probably wouldn’t have minded the postnational order envisioned by the Round Table types- an Anglo-American empire would be a nice end of history, and there’d probably have been as much social and economic freedom and mobility in my day as in our history. So excellent. But that agenda seemed to glide into the League of Nations and the modern internationalist mindset with an ease that beggars the imagination. Perhaps they had always seen those as the same thing. For me it is a moment of cognitive dissonance.

FWIW. It’s late in Ottawa. And moderately cold still. -16C, rumour has it. And I haven’t been outside in 12 hours.

1. The US as a state/nation/entity ended up in a position of even greater political and economic dominance than it looked fair to have in 1914, and substantially foreshadowing the one it got in 1945.

2. In the 1920s the US government and American businessmen held the debt of most of Europe in a way not true in 1914, and controlled the debt repayments to the US of Britain and France and in part through that controlled the scale and schedule of German reparations to them and other countries, and effectively determined how the German economy would be refloated and propped up so the cash kept flowing in all those directions. Iw as thinking mainly of things like the Dawes and Young plans.

3. American banking and manufacturing significantly expanded its presence in Europe.

The economic penetration and position were far ahead of the political and diplomatic of course. The US had stepped back a bit by making a separate non-Versaille peace with Germany and not joining the League. And Europe wasn’t destroyed nearly enough to cede all its leadership position and independence anyway. They needed a second round.

So, the US became the # 1 great power. SOme could see that coming by 1914 but it wasn’t as obvious or inevitable yet. In the 1920s the US was a tad more aloof but by then it could still stop anything it didn’t like too much if it wanted.

All the naval arms treaties served US interests quite nicely. THe US could have afforded to outbuild, but didn’t want to. THe UK could not have afforded a race, so they were benefitting too, but they had to scrap job lots of older ships that wouldn’t have been totally useless to meet tonnage limits, and suddenly the US Navy was the most powerful in the world for the first time. It has yet to yield the position.

GRanted, not everybody thinks in terms of geopolitics and state power, but that’s the kind of interests I was getting at.

AS far as the elites of the US then, well I’ll leave it to Americans in the end to define an American, and like all elites they had class and personal, ideological and business interests not always in alignment with the needs or wishes of common people. But it’s hard not to see the Daweses, Youngs, Roosevelts, Hoovers, Rockefellers, Fords, duPonts and so on as not American. Whatever I might think of the beliefs of any of them. They were at least as ‘national’ as any elite ever was. More than many.

“Some Americans in positions of influence certainly thought WW1 was in their interests as well as values.”

I would note that the extent to which this is true depends heavily on your definition of that funny little word, “American”.

“It was already…dictating the terms of German reparations”

…Is that an oblique reference to Schiff?

Who knows, really. I look forward to reading the judgments of academia freed of IC mind control.

I’m skeptical of really having to deal with a greater German kingdom, and not for the cartoonish reasons you find in Hollywood movies: fake showers, shiny jackboots, or hilariously failed attempts to make 1950’s suburbia look dystopian. From an Anglocentric perspective, and assuming that we could have successfully kept hold of our own system, Europe (and the world) would’ve been far better off under us than under the Germans, much less the Russians. I acknowledge that authoritarianism may be necessary in some circumstances, a liberal social order (in the true sense of the term) being vulnerable to certain unmentionable plagues, but it’s inferior in all the others: morally, intellectually, economically.

I think you’re right about us being at the big turning point of… something. I can feel it hanging in the air. To paraphrase Bob Dylan, something’s happening here, but I don’t know what it is.

Twenty years ago I would have 100% agreed that this was the right thing to do. Every day I become less and less sure that this is true.

There is no evidence, that I know of, that Hitler ever wanted anything but crop land, minerals and security for the Germans. Now you may get a mass of Jews saying different but…well they run the media so you can trust them as much as you trust the media.

If we had a contest between Germany and the US worldwide…what “exactly” would be the big difference between that and the cost of the cold war with the Soviet Union???? The USSR was MUCH more aggressive and a bigger threat to us than the Germans would have ever been because the systems of government were diametrically opposed. One had lose for the other to win. The Germans were just interested in Germans and security for Germans. There was never any Nazi global plan. It’s retarded to even say there was as the whole system was for Germans. A much easier task to balance the needs of Germany than the global aspirations of the USSR, (with apologies to the Russian people which I don’t have any beef with). On a wild whim you could say Germany could decide to commit genocide against us to be secure but that’s very, very doubtful as we had the bomb and they did not have it, at least publicly(there’s some evidence that they did but the evidence is spotty).

(An aside because it interest me so much, did you know there’s a great deal of evidence the Japanese had the bomb and even tested one successfully? The author of this book talked to scientist who actually worked on the program and told him they built one and exploded one off the coast of what is now N. Korea. Interestingly enough this area the Japanese supposedly built their bomb is the exact same place that the N. Koreans are supposedly building bombs.)

https://www.amazon.com/Japans-Secret-War-Against-Atomic/dp/156924815X

Now you’re saying to yourself, Sam J., you’ve completely lost it. Too many conspiracies have hollowed out your brain. Oh really then what was THIS for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine

Now Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto thought these up. Global range submarines that carry “only” three planes, to attack the USA. I tell you these super expensive subs have zero military value, unless, they carried nukes and then they would be incalculably valuable. The Japanese had the same information about splitting of the atom that the US and the Germans had. They also had very capable scientist. It puts the whole Pacific war in a different perspective if you see the Japanese attacking our bases in the Pacific to drive us off until…they have the bomb. They didn’t make it in time though, so they lost.

“…And now we get to witness twilight in the West…”

It’s not over yet. No one believes the big blaring media horn anymore. People are looking for answers. You will find them if you look and the answers they will find are 100% opposed to what we have been told for decades. It’s all a massive lie and always was. I’m talking about fundamentals of how things are run. The narrative we are taught is a lie and not the truth.

The end result of this will be conflict of one sort or another.

I personally think that a German Eurasia would have been a big problem, so crushing the Germans was probably the right move.

Trouble is, in retrospect, the Germans were right about a lot, and subsequent domestic social policy have done absolutely nothing to prove them wrong,

And now we get to witness twilight in the West.

Bittersweet.