<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: This is the mindset that enabled northwest Europeans to exploit the possibilities of the market economy</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 01 May 2026 09:53:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.6.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: CVLR</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-2730910</link>
		<dc:creator>CVLR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2019 02:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44376#comment-2730910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Celebrate the domestication of man.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Celebrate the domestication of man.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wan Wei Lin</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-2730489</link>
		<dc:creator>Wan Wei Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2019 07:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44376#comment-2730489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A roundabout way of saying the individual had higher priority than the collective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A roundabout way of saying the individual had higher priority than the collective.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-2730448</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2019 04:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44376#comment-2730448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting. I had read hunks of her blog, still have no idea who she is, and I had read some articles by Frost in the period 2012&#8211;14/15. But not enough to grasp the differences of all that framework or backstory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I had read hunks of her blog, still have no idea who she is, and I had read some articles by Frost in the period 2012&ndash;14/15. But not enough to grasp the differences of all that framework or backstory.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-2730380</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 23:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44376#comment-2730380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter Frost gives his side of the story, regarding HBD Chick&#039;s work, in his second &lt;a href=&quot;http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/12/rise-of-west-part-ii.html&quot;&gt;footnote&lt;/a&gt;: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hbd*chick has accused me of plagiarizing her work on the Hajnal Line and the Western European Marriage Pattern. The truth is that I became interested in that subject much earlier — during the early 1990s in an exchange of letters with Kevin MacDonald in the pages of &lt;em&gt;Ethology and Sociobiology&lt;/em&gt;. Afterwards, I intended to write a follow-up that would prove two points: 1) the Western European Marriage Pattern predates Christianity; and 2) this cultural environment has selected for certain psychological traits. Over the years I gathered material, but I didn&#039;t feel I had enough for a publishable article. I finally wrote up several blog posts on the subject in 2011 and eventually a full article in 2017. Meanwhile, hbd*chick had published her first post on the Hajnal Line in 2011. I did read that post but she seemed to be taking the same position that Kevin MacDonald had taken, i.e., that the WEMP was created by the Catholic Church and that outbreeding was key to emergence of the Western mindset. Later, in a 2012 post, she began to see the WEMP as a template for gene-culture coevolution. At that point I had the impression she was drawing on my material, either directly from my articles and blog posts or indirectly through various bloggers.

So did I &quot;discover&quot; this idea? No, of course not. Neither I nor hbd*chick was the first to write about the Hajnal Line or the WEMP. More importantly, neither of us was the first to link the WEMP to Western European individualism and mercantilism. I would award that title to Wally Seccombe in his 1992 book &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2CxfEwh&quot;&gt;A Millennium of Family Change. Feudalism to Capitalism in Northwestern Europe&lt;/a&gt;. In the end, few ideas are truly original. It&#039;s no coincidence that both of us began writing about that subject around the same time. Other people were writing on related topics, and those people were influencing both me and her. I&#039;m thinking here about authors like Gregory Clark and blogs like Jayman and Those Who Can See. I didn&#039;t read it at the time, but in January 2011 Kevin MacDonald wrote a book review that discussed the Hajnal Line and European individualism:



&lt;blockquote&gt;The nuclear family, freed from extended kinship obligations, is the basis of Western social organization. It is unique relative to other culture areas. This pattern is particularly noticeable in the Northwest of Europe rather than the Pontic steppe region. As one goes from the Northwest of Europe to the Southeast, there is an increase in joint family structure, with brothers living together with parents, grandparents and children. Family historian John Hajnal discovered the &quot;Hajnal line&quot; that separates Western Europe from Eastern Europe, the former characterized by nuclear family structure, relatively late marriage and large numbers of unmarried in economically difficult times, the latter by joint family structure and relatively early and universal marriage.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Finally, while preparing my 2017 article, I wanted to cite hbd*chick as someone with an alternate point of view, but I couldn&#039;t find anything published under her real name. There were only pseudonymous posts from her blog. To cite her in my manuscript would require inserting citations like (hbd*chick 2014). The reviewers would immediately notice, and the chances of rejection would increase accordingly. This point should be obvious. &lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Frost gives his side of the story, regarding HBD Chick&#8217;s work, in his second <a href="http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/12/rise-of-west-part-ii.html">footnote</a>: </p>
<blockquote><p>Hbd*chick has accused me of plagiarizing her work on the Hajnal Line and the Western European Marriage Pattern. The truth is that I became interested in that subject much earlier — during the early 1990s in an exchange of letters with Kevin MacDonald in the pages of <em>Ethology and Sociobiology</em>. Afterwards, I intended to write a follow-up that would prove two points: 1) the Western European Marriage Pattern predates Christianity; and 2) this cultural environment has selected for certain psychological traits. Over the years I gathered material, but I didn&#8217;t feel I had enough for a publishable article. I finally wrote up several blog posts on the subject in 2011 and eventually a full article in 2017. Meanwhile, hbd*chick had published her first post on the Hajnal Line in 2011. I did read that post but she seemed to be taking the same position that Kevin MacDonald had taken, i.e., that the WEMP was created by the Catholic Church and that outbreeding was key to emergence of the Western mindset. Later, in a 2012 post, she began to see the WEMP as a template for gene-culture coevolution. At that point I had the impression she was drawing on my material, either directly from my articles and blog posts or indirectly through various bloggers.</p>
<p>So did I &#8220;discover&#8221; this idea? No, of course not. Neither I nor hbd*chick was the first to write about the Hajnal Line or the WEMP. More importantly, neither of us was the first to link the WEMP to Western European individualism and mercantilism. I would award that title to Wally Seccombe in his 1992 book <a href="https://amzn.to/2CxfEwh">A Millennium of Family Change. Feudalism to Capitalism in Northwestern Europe</a>. In the end, few ideas are truly original. It&#8217;s no coincidence that both of us began writing about that subject around the same time. Other people were writing on related topics, and those people were influencing both me and her. I&#8217;m thinking here about authors like Gregory Clark and blogs like Jayman and Those Who Can See. I didn&#8217;t read it at the time, but in January 2011 Kevin MacDonald wrote a book review that discussed the Hajnal Line and European individualism:</p>
<blockquote><p>The nuclear family, freed from extended kinship obligations, is the basis of Western social organization. It is unique relative to other culture areas. This pattern is particularly noticeable in the Northwest of Europe rather than the Pontic steppe region. As one goes from the Northwest of Europe to the Southeast, there is an increase in joint family structure, with brothers living together with parents, grandparents and children. Family historian John Hajnal discovered the &#8220;Hajnal line&#8221; that separates Western Europe from Eastern Europe, the former characterized by nuclear family structure, relatively late marriage and large numbers of unmarried in economically difficult times, the latter by joint family structure and relatively early and universal marriage.</p></blockquote>
<p>Finally, while preparing my 2017 article, I wanted to cite hbd*chick as someone with an alternate point of view, but I couldn&#8217;t find anything published under her real name. There were only pseudonymous posts from her blog. To cite her in my manuscript would require inserting citations like (hbd*chick 2014). The reviewers would immediately notice, and the chances of rejection would increase accordingly. This point should be obvious. </p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/this-is-the-mindset-that-enabled-northwest-europeans-to-exploit-the-possibilities-of-the-market-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-2730279</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44376#comment-2730279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HBD Chick wrote a lot on these issues as well.

The foundations of a lot that is magnificent, and I still respect it as the basis of my civilization. For that matter, I&#039;m not temperamentally suited to a strong kinship/extended family social setup myself.

But it certainly seems to have been a faustian pact in the end.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HBD Chick wrote a lot on these issues as well.</p>
<p>The foundations of a lot that is magnificent, and I still respect it as the basis of my civilization. For that matter, I&#8217;m not temperamentally suited to a strong kinship/extended family social setup myself.</p>
<p>But it certainly seems to have been a faustian pact in the end.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
