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	<title>Comments on: No formal instruction was given</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: CVLR</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2734836</link>
		<dc:creator>CVLR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44391#comment-2734836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;“It’s as if trying to force learning has similar results to trying to force other otherwise pleasurable activities.”&lt;/em&gt;

Rape of the mind. Consult John Taylor Gatto.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>“It’s as if trying to force learning has similar results to trying to force other otherwise pleasurable activities.”</em></p>
<p>Rape of the mind. Consult John Taylor Gatto.</p>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2733330</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44391#comment-2733330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When we moved to France our eldest was 6 which was within a range I was comfortable with for her to pick up a new language. She did not speak any French but is the most garrulous, loud and fearless of my children so I had no worries. 

She started by picking up a friend who had never spoken French. I think she was born in Vietnam to a Vietnamese mother/French father and for some reason had never said a word at school or at home even though they spoke French at both places. My kid spoke at her constantly, mostly in English spoken in a French accent and gradually adding in words as she picked them up. Her friend said nothing but played along. Within a month the Vietnamese girl started to speak. The parents were delighted with the teacher, but I think the poor kid finally mustered up the courage to tell mine to shut the fuck up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When we moved to France our eldest was 6 which was within a range I was comfortable with for her to pick up a new language. She did not speak any French but is the most garrulous, loud and fearless of my children so I had no worries. </p>
<p>She started by picking up a friend who had never spoken French. I think she was born in Vietnam to a Vietnamese mother/French father and for some reason had never said a word at school or at home even though they spoke French at both places. My kid spoke at her constantly, mostly in English spoken in a French accent and gradually adding in words as she picked them up. Her friend said nothing but played along. Within a month the Vietnamese girl started to speak. The parents were delighted with the teacher, but I think the poor kid finally mustered up the courage to tell mine to shut the fuck up.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Jones</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2733072</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2019 06:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44391#comment-2733072</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently met a guy whose native language is not English and who has never been to an English speaking country. His English is far better than many who learn it as a second language in school. He told he he learned it by conversing with English speakers at every opportunity.

Structure matters, but motivation matters more than structure. Get motivated, and you will go out and find or create the right structure. But no motivation, no learning.

I blew off language classes because they weren&#039;t working for me. I didn&#039;t give up learning, though. I just tried different ways.

And the best way to learn a skill is to force yourself to use it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently met a guy whose native language is not English and who has never been to an English speaking country. His English is far better than many who learn it as a second language in school. He told he he learned it by conversing with English speakers at every opportunity.</p>
<p>Structure matters, but motivation matters more than structure. Get motivated, and you will go out and find or create the right structure. But no motivation, no learning.</p>
<p>I blew off language classes because they weren&#8217;t working for me. I didn&#8217;t give up learning, though. I just tried different ways.</p>
<p>And the best way to learn a skill is to force yourself to use it.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2732787</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2019 14:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44391#comment-2732787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This sort of unschooling is exactly what I&#039;ve done with my kids.  The oldest just started college at 16.  The middle one is motivated by nothing but keeping up academically with her friends.  The youngest is super smart but so distracted by life that she doesn&#039;t apply herself much.

I also think of anecdotes from teachers I know, about their classrooms full of kids that have zero desire to learn and peer pressure to remain stupid.

I think the bottom line here is that given freedom to do as they please, kids will react to societal expectations, and even then there is tremendous variation between kids.  I think this experiment would work great with kids from families and cultures that expect you to lead a productive life, and it would bomb miserably in the inner city, for example.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sort of unschooling is exactly what I&#8217;ve done with my kids.  The oldest just started college at 16.  The middle one is motivated by nothing but keeping up academically with her friends.  The youngest is super smart but so distracted by life that she doesn&#8217;t apply herself much.</p>
<p>I also think of anecdotes from teachers I know, about their classrooms full of kids that have zero desire to learn and peer pressure to remain stupid.</p>
<p>I think the bottom line here is that given freedom to do as they please, kids will react to societal expectations, and even then there is tremendous variation between kids.  I think this experiment would work great with kids from families and cultures that expect you to lead a productive life, and it would bomb miserably in the inner city, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: Aretae</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2732561</link>
		<dc:creator>Aretae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44391#comment-2732561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It’s as if trying to force learning has similar results to trying to force other otherwise pleasurable activities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s as if trying to force learning has similar results to trying to force other otherwise pleasurable activities.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2732462</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2019 15:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=44391#comment-2732462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s an effect to be seen in anything, where when you pay attention to it, it magically improves--&lt;i&gt;Because&lt;/i&gt; someone is paying attention to it.

It has been run into on multiple occasions studying factory productivity and other things, and I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if this were what happened here. The boys in the experiment were having, perhaps for the first time in their lives, attention paid to them. So... Improvements.

Would this &quot;un-schooling&quot; translate well into full-scale use? Don&#039;t know--Some would thrive, others would not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an effect to be seen in anything, where when you pay attention to it, it magically improves&#8211;<i>Because</i> someone is paying attention to it.</p>
<p>It has been run into on multiple occasions studying factory productivity and other things, and I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if this were what happened here. The boys in the experiment were having, perhaps for the first time in their lives, attention paid to them. So&#8230; Improvements.</p>
<p>Would this &#8220;un-schooling&#8221; translate well into full-scale use? Don&#8217;t know&#8211;Some would thrive, others would not.</p>
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		<title>By: No Smoke</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2019/01/no-formal-instruction-was-given/comment-page-1/#comment-2732441</link>
		<dc:creator>No Smoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2019 14:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Reminds me of &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2S4y4hA&quot;&gt;Summerhill&lt;/a&gt; by A.S. Neill.  :)  Summerhill was a real school in the UK, first half of 20th century.  A &quot;free school&quot; — no class attendance required, but teachers readily available.  Had pretty interesting results, good ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of <a href="https://amzn.to/2S4y4hA">Summerhill</a> by A.S. Neill.  :)  Summerhill was a real school in the UK, first half of 20th century.  A &#8220;free school&#8221; — no class attendance required, but teachers readily available.  Had pretty interesting results, good ones.</p>
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