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	<title>Comments on: Mechanical jokes and flat cats</title>
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	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Bruce Purcell</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-3491336</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Purcell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2022 18:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-3491336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In Patterson&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/3qQB14v&quot;&gt;biography&lt;/a&gt; Heinlein let &lt;em&gt;Star Trek&lt;/em&gt; use flatcats because he&#039;d lifted the idea from an old New Yorker story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Patterson&#8217;s <a href="https://amzn.to/3qQB14v">biography</a> Heinlein let <em>Star Trek</em> use flatcats because he&#8217;d lifted the idea from an old New Yorker story.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2664795</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2018 23:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2664795</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s not it. The one I&#039;m trying to remember was written sometime after the 1960s, because one of the examples it used was the failure of the war in Vietnam.

I&#039;m thinking it was a doctoral thesis or something that I picked up from one of my bosses who was an instructor in military history at West Point. It was a hell of an interesting read, because it pulled in stuff from the Venetian arsenal system and made connections between that and the rate of innovation in Venetian commercial shipbuilding that didn&#039;t take advantage of the things done in the arsenals.

Come to think of it, it may have been a doctoral thesis for the Naval Post-Graduate School down in California, because that&#039;s where he&#039;d gone for his post-grad work. It wasn&#039;t his, but it was something he&#039;d grabbed a copy of while he was there, if I&#039;m remembering right. I don&#039;t think it made it into commercial print, but I think it damn well should have.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not it. The one I&#8217;m trying to remember was written sometime after the 1960s, because one of the examples it used was the failure of the war in Vietnam.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking it was a doctoral thesis or something that I picked up from one of my bosses who was an instructor in military history at West Point. It was a hell of an interesting read, because it pulled in stuff from the Venetian arsenal system and made connections between that and the rate of innovation in Venetian commercial shipbuilding that didn&#8217;t take advantage of the things done in the arsenals.</p>
<p>Come to think of it, it may have been a doctoral thesis for the Naval Post-Graduate School down in California, because that&#8217;s where he&#8217;d gone for his post-grad work. It wasn&#8217;t his, but it was something he&#8217;d grabbed a copy of while he was there, if I&#8217;m remembering right. I don&#8217;t think it made it into commercial print, but I think it damn well should have.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam J.</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2664785</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2018 22:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2664785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kirk says,&quot;I can’t remember where I read it, but there’s an essay or research paper out there that goes over the factors that go into a society’s ability to adapt and change over its lifespan...&quot;


Could this be it?

William Playfair,&quot;Inquiry Into The Causes Of The Decline Of Powerful Nations&quot;

I wonder if I read that. I would sure like to I have interest in these sort of things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirk says,&#8221;I can’t remember where I read it, but there’s an essay or research paper out there that goes over the factors that go into a society’s ability to adapt and change over its lifespan&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Could this be it?</p>
<p>William Playfair,&#8221;Inquiry Into The Causes Of The Decline Of Powerful Nations&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder if I read that. I would sure like to I have interest in these sort of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2663681</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2018 17:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2663681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t remember where I read it, but there&#039;s an essay or research paper out there that goes over the factors that go into a society&#039;s ability to adapt and change over its lifespan (and, societies  have them, just like any other organism...), describing the process by which things ossify and become &quot;fixed&quot;. It was an interesting read, and I really wish I could remember more about it--The author pulled in a bunch of stuff ranging from the Venetian Republic to the Industrial Revolution, and made some really good cases for the parallels and syndromes that overtake societies.

I think there are some good questions to be asked here, and when you look at things like Apple, where Steve Jobs formed the company, got thrown out of its governance, and then was brought back to figurehead its renaissance... Well, you start to see some interesting things about the people who are involved in these things.

A parallel I&#039;ve noted from my military service is that there are some interesting factors that go into this--A case in point that I&#039;m personally somewhat knowledgeable of is the Engineer School&#039;s (nee Center...) Sapper Leader Course. Originally, that course was designed to serve as a means of bringing junior Engineer leaders up to Light Division leadership standards, due to the Ranger School not having enough slots or interest in providing Engineer leaders with that sort of training--Which was absolutely required for the Light Division to work. Sooo... The Engineer School handed off a mandate to a bunch of folks that they needed to come up with a training course that would enable the cadre for the Light Division Engineer Battalions to at least meet the minimal standards for the Division. This was met, and the early days of the Sapper Leader Course saw some pretty intense training, because the initial cadre were a bunch of semi-outcasts and misfits with the &quot;program&quot;. Those guys did a lot of good things, because they were allowed the room to do it, and because they were dedicated men with clear vision of what they wanted to do. The career-minded folks? They all wanted nothing to do with the program, &#039;cos... Hard work, and they didn&#039;t see it as being &quot;good for their careers&quot;, and was risky, to boot--They might not make it through the Ranger School prerequisite training, and that whole SERE School requirement was scary, as was the Airborne thing.

So, flash forward a few years, and the guys who started the place were successful, and were ready to move on to bigger and better things. All of a sudden, the Sapper Leader Course cadre slot wasn&#039;t seen as a risk, and was &quot;good for the career&quot;, aaaand... The careerists took over, colonizing the place. They eventually ran it into the ground, and then the usual sine wave of excellence started happening--One set of cadre would come in, screw the place up, and then the leadership of the Engineer School would go &quot;Oh, my God... We gotta fix that place!!&quot;, and send in good men with a mandate to un-f**k the situation.

It&#039;s a friggin&#039; life-cycle, once you start to recognize the whole thing. You see similar syndromes down at the micro-level in military units, with regards to things like the Arms Room in a company. Usual cycle there is that a commander comes in, takes over, and then comes to a realization that &quot;Holy f**k-nozzles, my Arms Room is f**ked-up...&quot;. This sometimes happens because the previous commander got relieved due to Arms Room issues, but not always... It&#039;s usually neglect. So, the commander recognizes he has a problem, and then fixes it via assigning a Really Good Soldier(TM) to the Arms Room, and closely supervising them, giving them plenty of support. The Arms Room is thus eventually fixed, and goes on to demonstrate excellence in management under &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; specific commander. Follow-on commander? The Arms Room isn&#039;t an issue for him, so a policy of benign neglect and ignorance follows, which over a succession of a couple of commanders, results in the Arms Room becoming a disaster area again. Thus, the &quot;Sine Wave of Excellence&quot; syndrome I refer to--You can see this same thing take place across society in governance, schools, and commercial life.

The rate of innovation in a society is somewhat connected to this, because the progression is similar. Main difference is that as a new technology or commercial practice comes into use, it&#039;s usually covering fallow ground, and the original innovator can quite literally get away with murder. The Internet is like that, and by virtue of the fact that the founders like Google have abused their resultant power, we&#039;re going to see trust-busting come in and break them up over the ideological BS they&#039;re pulling. Monopoly issues don&#039;t come into play just over economic factors--You have in our society a demonstrated problem with intellectual monopoly as well, when you see that 90% of political donations in the academy and some highly influential tech companies are going to one ideological side and political party. Action will have to be taken, and it will be interesting to see what works out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t remember where I read it, but there&#8217;s an essay or research paper out there that goes over the factors that go into a society&#8217;s ability to adapt and change over its lifespan (and, societies  have them, just like any other organism&#8230;), describing the process by which things ossify and become &#8220;fixed&#8221;. It was an interesting read, and I really wish I could remember more about it&#8211;The author pulled in a bunch of stuff ranging from the Venetian Republic to the Industrial Revolution, and made some really good cases for the parallels and syndromes that overtake societies.</p>
<p>I think there are some good questions to be asked here, and when you look at things like Apple, where Steve Jobs formed the company, got thrown out of its governance, and then was brought back to figurehead its renaissance&#8230; Well, you start to see some interesting things about the people who are involved in these things.</p>
<p>A parallel I&#8217;ve noted from my military service is that there are some interesting factors that go into this&#8211;A case in point that I&#8217;m personally somewhat knowledgeable of is the Engineer School&#8217;s (nee Center&#8230;) Sapper Leader Course. Originally, that course was designed to serve as a means of bringing junior Engineer leaders up to Light Division leadership standards, due to the Ranger School not having enough slots or interest in providing Engineer leaders with that sort of training&#8211;Which was absolutely required for the Light Division to work. Sooo&#8230; The Engineer School handed off a mandate to a bunch of folks that they needed to come up with a training course that would enable the cadre for the Light Division Engineer Battalions to at least meet the minimal standards for the Division. This was met, and the early days of the Sapper Leader Course saw some pretty intense training, because the initial cadre were a bunch of semi-outcasts and misfits with the &#8220;program&#8221;. Those guys did a lot of good things, because they were allowed the room to do it, and because they were dedicated men with clear vision of what they wanted to do. The career-minded folks? They all wanted nothing to do with the program, &#8216;cos&#8230; Hard work, and they didn&#8217;t see it as being &#8220;good for their careers&#8221;, and was risky, to boot&#8211;They might not make it through the Ranger School prerequisite training, and that whole SERE School requirement was scary, as was the Airborne thing.</p>
<p>So, flash forward a few years, and the guys who started the place were successful, and were ready to move on to bigger and better things. All of a sudden, the Sapper Leader Course cadre slot wasn&#8217;t seen as a risk, and was &#8220;good for the career&#8221;, aaaand&#8230; The careerists took over, colonizing the place. They eventually ran it into the ground, and then the usual sine wave of excellence started happening&#8211;One set of cadre would come in, screw the place up, and then the leadership of the Engineer School would go &#8220;Oh, my God&#8230; We gotta fix that place!!&#8221;, and send in good men with a mandate to un-f**k the situation.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a friggin&#8217; life-cycle, once you start to recognize the whole thing. You see similar syndromes down at the micro-level in military units, with regards to things like the Arms Room in a company. Usual cycle there is that a commander comes in, takes over, and then comes to a realization that &#8220;Holy f**k-nozzles, my Arms Room is f**ked-up&#8230;&#8221;. This sometimes happens because the previous commander got relieved due to Arms Room issues, but not always&#8230; It&#8217;s usually neglect. So, the commander recognizes he has a problem, and then fixes it via assigning a Really Good Soldier(TM) to the Arms Room, and closely supervising them, giving them plenty of support. The Arms Room is thus eventually fixed, and goes on to demonstrate excellence in management under <i>that</i> specific commander. Follow-on commander? The Arms Room isn&#8217;t an issue for him, so a policy of benign neglect and ignorance follows, which over a succession of a couple of commanders, results in the Arms Room becoming a disaster area again. Thus, the &#8220;Sine Wave of Excellence&#8221; syndrome I refer to&#8211;You can see this same thing take place across society in governance, schools, and commercial life.</p>
<p>The rate of innovation in a society is somewhat connected to this, because the progression is similar. Main difference is that as a new technology or commercial practice comes into use, it&#8217;s usually covering fallow ground, and the original innovator can quite literally get away with murder. The Internet is like that, and by virtue of the fact that the founders like Google have abused their resultant power, we&#8217;re going to see trust-busting come in and break them up over the ideological BS they&#8217;re pulling. Monopoly issues don&#8217;t come into play just over economic factors&#8211;You have in our society a demonstrated problem with intellectual monopoly as well, when you see that 90% of political donations in the academy and some highly influential tech companies are going to one ideological side and political party. Action will have to be taken, and it will be interesting to see what works out.</p>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2663586</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2663586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Well, he wasn’t wrong… If you were to try to bring the car into common use today, in the environment we have, well…&quot;

Imagine in you tried to bring *electricity* into common use in today&#039;s political climate.  Edison would have gotten away with his sleazy fear-based campaign against AC, and no would could get electricity unless they lived within 3 or so miles of a generating plant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well, he wasn’t wrong… If you were to try to bring the car into common use today, in the environment we have, well…&#8221;</p>
<p>Imagine in you tried to bring *electricity* into common use in today&#8217;s political climate.  Edison would have gotten away with his sleazy fear-based campaign against AC, and no would could get electricity unless they lived within 3 or so miles of a generating plant.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2663243</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2663243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, he wasn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt;... If you were to try to bring the car into common use today, in the environment we have, well... Can you imagine the insanity that the bureaucracy would bring into it? Hell, historically, there were requirements in place for an automobile driver to have someone walking in front of their car waving a red lantern, like it was some sort of siege engine come to destroy the town.

It&#039;s like aspirin--A doctor familiar with medical testing once told me that if you were to try to bring aspirin on the market in today&#039;s regulatory environment, you&#039;d never be able to do it. Too many &quot;risk factors&quot;; the FDA would never allow it. Plus, we&#039;re really not too damn sure how aspirin even works, to this day. Safer to just not allow it...

Which is one reason I seriously doubt that anyone will ever get flying cars off the ground, in large numbers. The FAA simply won&#039;t allow it, and it will be adopted, if at all, in some country that&#039;s still delightfully unregulated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, he wasn&#8217;t <i>wrong</i>&#8230; If you were to try to bring the car into common use today, in the environment we have, well&#8230; Can you imagine the insanity that the bureaucracy would bring into it? Hell, historically, there were requirements in place for an automobile driver to have someone walking in front of their car waving a red lantern, like it was some sort of siege engine come to destroy the town.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like aspirin&#8211;A doctor familiar with medical testing once told me that if you were to try to bring aspirin on the market in today&#8217;s regulatory environment, you&#8217;d never be able to do it. Too many &#8220;risk factors&#8221;; the FDA would never allow it. Plus, we&#8217;re really not too damn sure how aspirin even works, to this day. Safer to just not allow it&#8230;</p>
<p>Which is one reason I seriously doubt that anyone will ever get flying cars off the ground, in large numbers. The FAA simply won&#8217;t allow it, and it will be adopted, if at all, in some country that&#8217;s still delightfully unregulated.</p>
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		<title>By: Neovictorian</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2663139</link>
		<dc:creator>Neovictorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2018 16:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2663139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember laughing out loud as a 12-year-old when I read that passage about the automobile. &quot;The heroic human operator&quot; indeed.

I&#039;m a self-admitted huge Heinlein fan, and I don&#039;t think any of his books are not at least very, very good, but of the juveniles I think &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2OAo0ry&quot;&gt;Red Planet&lt;/a&gt; is my favorite.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember laughing out loud as a 12-year-old when I read that passage about the automobile. &#8220;The heroic human operator&#8221; indeed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a self-admitted huge Heinlein fan, and I don&#8217;t think any of his books are not at least very, very good, but of the juveniles I think <a href="https://amzn.to/2OAo0ry">Red Planet</a> is my favorite.</p>
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		<title>By: Kentucky Headhunter</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2657575</link>
		<dc:creator>Kentucky Headhunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2018 19:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2657575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I enjoyed &quot;Citizen&quot; as well; it&#039;s better than &quot;Farmer&quot; but I think &quot;Tunnel&quot; has the best main character arc. I&#039;ve read several in the few years looking for good reads for my younger boys.

Looking forward to passing on &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2NJwT5a&quot;&gt;The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2Nz6FSL&quot;&gt;Starship Troopers&lt;/a&gt; in another few years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed &#8220;Citizen&#8221; as well; it&#8217;s better than &#8220;Farmer&#8221; but I think &#8220;Tunnel&#8221; has the best main character arc. I&#8217;ve read several in the few years looking for good reads for my younger boys.</p>
<p>Looking forward to passing on <a href="https://amzn.to/2NJwT5a">The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress</a> and <a href="https://amzn.to/2Nz6FSL">Starship Troopers</a> in another few years.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike in Boston</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2657532</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Boston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2657532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[De gustibus non est disputandum. I remember liking Kentucky Headhunter&#039;s two rather less than &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2NakOWQ&quot;&gt;Have Space Suit, Will Travel&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2NDTwHW&quot;&gt;Citizen of the Galaxy&lt;/a&gt;. Then again, I was in fifth grade at the time. 

I can&#039;t believe that so many Heinlein juveniles are out of print. Heinlein may be a Politically Incorrect Dead White Man, but I would be surprised if the books didn&#039;t still sell rather well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>De gustibus non est disputandum. I remember liking Kentucky Headhunter&#8217;s two rather less than <a href="https://amzn.to/2NakOWQ">Have Space Suit, Will Travel</a> and <a href="https://amzn.to/2NDTwHW">Citizen of the Galaxy</a>. Then again, I was in fifth grade at the time. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe that so many Heinlein juveniles are out of print. Heinlein may be a Politically Incorrect Dead White Man, but I would be surprised if the books didn&#8217;t still sell rather well.</p>
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		<title>By: Kentucky Headhunter</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/09/mechanical-jokes-and-flat-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-2657410</link>
		<dc:creator>Kentucky Headhunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2018 12:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.isegoria.net/?p=43887#comment-2657410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;The Rolling Stones&lt;/em&gt; is one of the more disappointing Heinlein juveniles, along with Space Cadet. If &lt;em&gt;The Rolling Stones&lt;/em&gt; hasn&#039;t put you off completely, try &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2xcmYL8&quot;&gt;Tunnel In The Sky&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href=&quot;https://amzn.to/2x9y3fS&quot;&gt;Farmer In The Sky&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Rolling Stones</em> is one of the more disappointing Heinlein juveniles, along with Space Cadet. If <em>The Rolling Stones</em> hasn&#8217;t put you off completely, try <a href="https://amzn.to/2xcmYL8">Tunnel In The Sky</a> or <a href="https://amzn.to/2x9y3fS">Farmer In The Sky</a>.</p>
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