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	<title>Comments on: Premodern and prenationalist</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/comment-page-1/#comment-2630063</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2018 00:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=43388#comment-2630063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the entire history of the world, I don&#039;t think there has ever been an objectively true case where we&#039;ve been able to see something like what every ethnic and racial group claims: Inherent superiority over the &quot;other&quot;, however they might define that.

And, likewise... There&#039;s not a single damn case where I can think of some group going &quot;Oh, hell yeah... We&#039;re inferior, utterly and incontrovertibly... We completely agree with those guys over there, who are saying we are...&quot;.

From this, I think we can safely infer a couple of things: One, that those who claim superiority for themselves are generally entirely delusional, and that most humans are too egotistical to admit it when they&#039;ve got problems in the cultural/social/biological matrix they&#039;re embedded in, and that&#039;s in either direction.

Friend of mine is a Sikh; his take on the whole thing vis-a-vis Indian caste is that it may actually be a &quot;real&quot; thing--But, only in India, with the entire cultural &quot;thing&quot; surrounding it in place. Break the people out of their castes, by way of transplanting them somewhere else, and all of a sudden, all those assumptions and expectations go to hell. He&#039;s got a hell of a story about a couple of his friends, who were very low-caste in India, coming to America and suddenly turning into completely different and more successful versions of themselves, only to revert upon returning to India. 

Culture is a strange, strange thing, and unexpectedly influential in some areas that we think are not touched on by that aspect of the human condition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the entire history of the world, I don&#8217;t think there has ever been an objectively true case where we&#8217;ve been able to see something like what every ethnic and racial group claims: Inherent superiority over the &#8220;other&#8221;, however they might define that.</p>
<p>And, likewise&#8230; There&#8217;s not a single damn case where I can think of some group going &#8220;Oh, hell yeah&#8230; We&#8217;re inferior, utterly and incontrovertibly&#8230; We completely agree with those guys over there, who are saying we are&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>From this, I think we can safely infer a couple of things: One, that those who claim superiority for themselves are generally entirely delusional, and that most humans are too egotistical to admit it when they&#8217;ve got problems in the cultural/social/biological matrix they&#8217;re embedded in, and that&#8217;s in either direction.</p>
<p>Friend of mine is a Sikh; his take on the whole thing vis-a-vis Indian caste is that it may actually be a &#8220;real&#8221; thing&#8211;But, only in India, with the entire cultural &#8220;thing&#8221; surrounding it in place. Break the people out of their castes, by way of transplanting them somewhere else, and all of a sudden, all those assumptions and expectations go to hell. He&#8217;s got a hell of a story about a couple of his friends, who were very low-caste in India, coming to America and suddenly turning into completely different and more successful versions of themselves, only to revert upon returning to India. </p>
<p>Culture is a strange, strange thing, and unexpectedly influential in some areas that we think are not touched on by that aspect of the human condition.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Brahmin</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/comment-page-1/#comment-2630049</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Brahmin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2018 21:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[As a Brahmin, though I&#039;d love to hear that my caste is the best of the best, the top  of the top, I have come to realize that there&#039;re a lot of talented people from every caste.

In the US I have run into several doctors who were Patels (Peasant caste, fourth out of fifth in traditional hierarchy), several successful businessmen who were Reddys (again, Peasant caste, fourth of fifth in hierarchy) and so on.

In the UK, much of the Punjabi and Sikh diaspora is from the lower and outcaste part of the pool. And yet, they do fairly well. Not as well as Jews, sure, but still pretty well. 

In Singapore, where the bulk of the Tamil Indian diaspora is of lower and outcaste origin, they still do almost as well as the Chinese.

I was formerly quite pessimistic about India&#039;s long term prospects given my belief in HBD, but on further reflection I think we will do just fine. 

We may not have all the whizz-bang gadgetry of the Chinese but we&#039;ll have more soft power and wealth-transferring ability. More CEOs, less engineers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Brahmin, though I&#8217;d love to hear that my caste is the best of the best, the top  of the top, I have come to realize that there&#8217;re a lot of talented people from every caste.</p>
<p>In the US I have run into several doctors who were Patels (Peasant caste, fourth out of fifth in traditional hierarchy), several successful businessmen who were Reddys (again, Peasant caste, fourth of fifth in hierarchy) and so on.</p>
<p>In the UK, much of the Punjabi and Sikh diaspora is from the lower and outcaste part of the pool. And yet, they do fairly well. Not as well as Jews, sure, but still pretty well. </p>
<p>In Singapore, where the bulk of the Tamil Indian diaspora is of lower and outcaste origin, they still do almost as well as the Chinese.</p>
<p>I was formerly quite pessimistic about India&#8217;s long term prospects given my belief in HBD, but on further reflection I think we will do just fine. </p>
<p>We may not have all the whizz-bang gadgetry of the Chinese but we&#8217;ll have more soft power and wealth-transferring ability. More CEOs, less engineers.</p>
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		<title>By: Lu An Li</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/comment-page-1/#comment-2629420</link>
		<dc:creator>Lu An Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2018 02:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Who are the Brahmins? They appear to be the descendants of Aryan conquerors who rigged Indian culture to keep their heirs on top for thousands of years&quot;

According to the Hindu faith the world only exists because the gods exist. And the gods only exist because the Brahmin make the prayers, rituals, supplications, incantations, etc. No Brahmin, no world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Who are the Brahmins? They appear to be the descendants of Aryan conquerors who rigged Indian culture to keep their heirs on top for thousands of years&#8221;</p>
<p>According to the Hindu faith the world only exists because the gods exist. And the gods only exist because the Brahmin make the prayers, rituals, supplications, incantations, etc. No Brahmin, no world.</p>
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		<title>By: Boo</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/comment-page-1/#comment-2629161</link>
		<dc:creator>Boo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[BS,

Factually you are wrong.

The vast majority (i.e. north India) are Aryans who make up the lower-IQ peoples. The south Indian people, Dravidian, are &#039;generally&#039; smarter and include Telugu and Tamil Brahmins. 

In addition, much of the low IQ is attributable to low aggregate scores in nutrition and sanitation/healthcare. Whether this is fixable is a different question, but both nature and nurture play a role.

Muh IQ is a stupid idea, not least because we only measure intelligence on a relative scale, so what an IQ score means in a specific situation ranges from sweet FA to (almost) everything, i.e. IQ is less useful as a diagnostic tool than one would hope.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS,</p>
<p>Factually you are wrong.</p>
<p>The vast majority (i.e. north India) are Aryans who make up the lower-IQ peoples. The south Indian people, Dravidian, are &#8216;generally&#8217; smarter and include Telugu and Tamil Brahmins. </p>
<p>In addition, much of the low IQ is attributable to low aggregate scores in nutrition and sanitation/healthcare. Whether this is fixable is a different question, but both nature and nurture play a role.</p>
<p>Muh IQ is a stupid idea, not least because we only measure intelligence on a relative scale, so what an IQ score means in a specific situation ranges from sweet FA to (almost) everything, i.e. IQ is less useful as a diagnostic tool than one would hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/comment-page-1/#comment-2628666</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=43388#comment-2628666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;...very low IQ’s of the vast Dravidian majority...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;.

Upon which data do you base this assertion? And, for that matter, to what do you ascribe this &quot;problem&quot;?

You start using a broad brush like that, you&#039;d best remember how often such calumnies were used in the past, and how often they were proven wrong by actual performance and experience. Who was it that described the Japanese as never being able to be decent combat pilots because they were all near-sighted bespectacled dwarves who would never be able to fight the white man...?

Pearl Harbor, Singapore, and the fates of the &lt;i&gt;Prince of Wales&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Repulse&lt;/i&gt; taught us how accurate that characterization was; I wonder what lessons will teach us the opposite of your assessment of the &quot;Dravidian majority&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;&#8230;very low IQ’s of the vast Dravidian majority&#8230;&#8221;</i>.</p>
<p>Upon which data do you base this assertion? And, for that matter, to what do you ascribe this &#8220;problem&#8221;?</p>
<p>You start using a broad brush like that, you&#8217;d best remember how often such calumnies were used in the past, and how often they were proven wrong by actual performance and experience. Who was it that described the Japanese as never being able to be decent combat pilots because they were all near-sighted bespectacled dwarves who would never be able to fight the white man&#8230;?</p>
<p>Pearl Harbor, Singapore, and the fates of the <i>Prince of Wales</i> and <i>Repulse</i> taught us how accurate that characterization was; I wonder what lessons will teach us the opposite of your assessment of the &#8220;Dravidian majority&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sykes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2018/04/premodern-and-prenationalist/comment-page-1/#comment-2628655</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The very low IQ&#039;s of the vast Dravidian majority means that India cannot achieve the economic miracle of the Han. The same problem dooms Africa, most of Latin America and most of the East Indies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The very low IQ&#8217;s of the vast Dravidian majority means that India cannot achieve the economic miracle of the Han. The same problem dooms Africa, most of Latin America and most of the East Indies.</p>
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