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	<title>Comments on: There is no equality before the taxman</title>
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	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Sam J.</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/11/there-is-no-equality-before-the-taxman/comment-page-1/#comment-2597687</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Patty O&#039;s description of the middle class is very good!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patty O&#8217;s description of the middle class is very good!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sam J.</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/11/there-is-no-equality-before-the-taxman/comment-page-1/#comment-2597686</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42765#comment-2597686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...end the double taxation on saving and investment...&quot;

I don&#039;t agree with ending this. Corporations, it has been ruled, are people. As long as this is the case and they can give any quantity of money they wish to politicians then they should be taxed like people and be treated like people in criminal cases. People don&#039;t have limited liability so Corporations shouldn&#039;t have it either if they are people. Corporations have a huge advantage over the average citizen which they shouldn&#039;t. In the past Corporations were ruled to be a great evil, which they are, because no one is ultimately responsible for what they do. Corporations are not over taxed. They pay less than people. If corporations want taxes to be lower for them then they need to explicitly give up their rights as people and become just a limited liability corporation like the original law intended. There is no double taxation because Corporations are people. Why should someone pay less taxes, indexed to inflation, if they put their money in a corporation than someone who uses their money to build something? Why is their money better than someone who say opens a bank account?

The whole capital gains laws are just a huge rip off. All gains should be taxed at the same rate adjusted for inflation. Let&#039;s say a guy uses his tractor to make some money. Why is the use of capital any different? Another example. A guy uses his programming skills to program a computer program and the profits are taxed at a normal rate. Another guy uses his capital to pay one person to write the same program and he gets a better capital gains tax rate. There is no double taxation because people using capital to make money are just using the tools they have to make money. Same as a shovel, a tractor or labor. That any of these are any different is just a huge lie that can readily be seen as bull.

I was talking to a guy once about this and he was spouting the standard Fox news line about how important it is to treat capital better than other types of assets or labor. What most people don&#039;t understand is those who have access to capital creation, banks, can create capital for almost nothing putting everyone else at a huge disadvantage. I don&#039;t want bankers to own everything, as they do now. I would change the laws to vastly, greatly, tremendously favor people who actually made something instead of using just capital to buy every one else out.

We already have laws that overwhelmingly favor capital over people. Hence the financialization of all aspects of our lives. The financial creation class can destroy an honest run business because they don&#039;t have to make profits like a normal business. Look at Amazon. Have they EVER made a profit??? The only reason Amazon, Facebook and Google exist is they are in with the financial Oligarchs and can get capital at next to nothing.

I have no problems with people making fortunes if they make something. People like Bill Gates, although I hate him for social reasons(he said that out of all the massive money he has in foundations that he was not going to give any money to White people, FUCK HIM), I don&#039;t begrudge him the money he&#039;s made. Same with Steve Jobs and others like this. There&#039;s a lot of people that hate, absolutely hate Elon Musk because he gets government subsidies. Yet we don&#039;t hear a peep about the bankers who get to create money from nothing and buy up all the industry in the country and move it to China. At least Elon is making something and the tax breaks that he gets are because the US government, and I personally, believe that solar power, electric cars and a national space program are important for the USA and it&#039;s worth paying for. I seriously doubt you could get the same level of support of bank ownership of industry and yet we subsidize them to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;end the double taxation on saving and investment&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree with ending this. Corporations, it has been ruled, are people. As long as this is the case and they can give any quantity of money they wish to politicians then they should be taxed like people and be treated like people in criminal cases. People don&#8217;t have limited liability so Corporations shouldn&#8217;t have it either if they are people. Corporations have a huge advantage over the average citizen which they shouldn&#8217;t. In the past Corporations were ruled to be a great evil, which they are, because no one is ultimately responsible for what they do. Corporations are not over taxed. They pay less than people. If corporations want taxes to be lower for them then they need to explicitly give up their rights as people and become just a limited liability corporation like the original law intended. There is no double taxation because Corporations are people. Why should someone pay less taxes, indexed to inflation, if they put their money in a corporation than someone who uses their money to build something? Why is their money better than someone who say opens a bank account?</p>
<p>The whole capital gains laws are just a huge rip off. All gains should be taxed at the same rate adjusted for inflation. Let&#8217;s say a guy uses his tractor to make some money. Why is the use of capital any different? Another example. A guy uses his programming skills to program a computer program and the profits are taxed at a normal rate. Another guy uses his capital to pay one person to write the same program and he gets a better capital gains tax rate. There is no double taxation because people using capital to make money are just using the tools they have to make money. Same as a shovel, a tractor or labor. That any of these are any different is just a huge lie that can readily be seen as bull.</p>
<p>I was talking to a guy once about this and he was spouting the standard Fox news line about how important it is to treat capital better than other types of assets or labor. What most people don&#8217;t understand is those who have access to capital creation, banks, can create capital for almost nothing putting everyone else at a huge disadvantage. I don&#8217;t want bankers to own everything, as they do now. I would change the laws to vastly, greatly, tremendously favor people who actually made something instead of using just capital to buy every one else out.</p>
<p>We already have laws that overwhelmingly favor capital over people. Hence the financialization of all aspects of our lives. The financial creation class can destroy an honest run business because they don&#8217;t have to make profits like a normal business. Look at Amazon. Have they EVER made a profit??? The only reason Amazon, Facebook and Google exist is they are in with the financial Oligarchs and can get capital at next to nothing.</p>
<p>I have no problems with people making fortunes if they make something. People like Bill Gates, although I hate him for social reasons(he said that out of all the massive money he has in foundations that he was not going to give any money to White people, FUCK HIM), I don&#8217;t begrudge him the money he&#8217;s made. Same with Steve Jobs and others like this. There&#8217;s a lot of people that hate, absolutely hate Elon Musk because he gets government subsidies. Yet we don&#8217;t hear a peep about the bankers who get to create money from nothing and buy up all the industry in the country and move it to China. At least Elon is making something and the tax breaks that he gets are because the US government, and I personally, believe that solar power, electric cars and a national space program are important for the USA and it&#8217;s worth paying for. I seriously doubt you could get the same level of support of bank ownership of industry and yet we subsidize them to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars.</p>
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		<title>By: Patty O.</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/11/there-is-no-equality-before-the-taxman/comment-page-1/#comment-2596875</link>
		<dc:creator>Patty O.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2017 15:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42765#comment-2596875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You’re middle class if you do your own laundry. If you do someone else’s laundry, you’re probably poor. If “the help” does your laundry, then you’re rich.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You’re middle class if you do your own laundry. If you do someone else’s laundry, you’re probably poor. If “the help” does your laundry, then you’re rich.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/11/there-is-no-equality-before-the-taxman/comment-page-1/#comment-2596865</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42765#comment-2596865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t agree with the definition of middle class as middle quartiles. It is simple but misses any difference in character between classes and is a complete break with history. It was not the case that half the population were middle class. How many merchants and professionals traditionally? 10%? 

Maybe it is best defined by the payment of taxes. If you don&#039;t pay much tax, I&#039;m not sure you can be middle class.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with the definition of middle class as middle quartiles. It is simple but misses any difference in character between classes and is a complete break with history. It was not the case that half the population were middle class. How many merchants and professionals traditionally? 10%? </p>
<p>Maybe it is best defined by the payment of taxes. If you don&#8217;t pay much tax, I&#8217;m not sure you can be middle class.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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