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	<title>Comments on: The reactor, named Norman, can operate at 60 million degrees Celsius</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2568207</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2017 16:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2568207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t necessarily disagree with you, Bob; I was linking his comments more for their (in my opinion valid) criticism of some of the smaller fusion efforts more than his support of the larger ones. 

I do think that eventually we&#039;ll figure out artificial fusion as a viable power source, but I agree with you that it&#039;s unlikely to come out of one of the big efforts currently ongoing. More likely something like magneto-inertial liner fusion, or perhaps as a result of us learning more about the detailed dynamics of high-temperature plasmas (which are still quite mysterious). 

That said, I&#039;m not sure what you&#039;re trying to get at when you talk about plasma temperatures. IIRC, some fusion experiments have produced plasmas in that temperature range, and the Z-machine achieved a 2-billion K plasma quite a while ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily disagree with you, Bob; I was linking his comments more for their (in my opinion valid) criticism of some of the smaller fusion efforts more than his support of the larger ones. </p>
<p>I do think that eventually we&#8217;ll figure out artificial fusion as a viable power source, but I agree with you that it&#8217;s unlikely to come out of one of the big efforts currently ongoing. More likely something like magneto-inertial liner fusion, or perhaps as a result of us learning more about the detailed dynamics of high-temperature plasmas (which are still quite mysterious). </p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m not sure what you&#8217;re trying to get at when you talk about plasma temperatures. IIRC, some fusion experiments have produced plasmas in that temperature range, and the Z-machine achieved a 2-billion K plasma quite a while ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sykes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2568129</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2568129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scipio, 

Thank you for the link, especially for pointing out the comment by pdf27. However, that does not change my mind that Alpha Energy is running a scam. &quot;Commercial-scale nuclear fusion will likely have to operate in the range of a billion degrees centigrade.&quot; Is that not a dead giveaway? 10^9 K is the temperature of the Big Bang at 100 sec.

As to the tokamak, we now have experienced 40 years of failure in that design (which admittedly is only one likely to succeed), so I don&#039;t think it is going anywhere, although pdf27 apparently hasn&#039;t given up on it. 

If you have access to Science and Physics Today, you might want to read the following:

W. D. Metz (1976), &quot;Fusion Research (I): What is the Program Buying the Country?,&quot; Science, vol. 192, pp. 1320-1323.

W. D. Metz (1976), &quot;Fusion (II): Detailed Reactor Studies Identify More Problems,&quot; Science, vol. 193, pp. 38-40, 76-?

W. D. Metz (1976), &quot;Fusion Research (III): New Interest in Fusion-Assisted Breeders,&quot; Science, vol. 193, pp 307-?

W. E. Parkins (1978), &quot;Engineering Limitations of Fusion Power Plants,&quot; Science, vol. 199, pp. 1403-1408.

W. E. Parkins (1997), &quot;Physics Today,&quot; pp. 15, 101-102.

I don&#039;t wish to regurgitate ancient history, but there has been very little, if any, progress on the  tokamak design. 

The real killer, however, is the cost. Back in the 70&#039;s it was estimated that the capital cost of a working tokamak machine would be an order of magnitude larger than the cost of a fission reactor, then the most expensive source of electricity. So, even if we could somehow solve the engineering problems of the tokamak, it would have no commercial or military use.

The tokamak is just one of several Big Science projects that should be shut down. Nominations are open.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scipio, </p>
<p>Thank you for the link, especially for pointing out the comment by pdf27. However, that does not change my mind that Alpha Energy is running a scam. &#8220;Commercial-scale nuclear fusion will likely have to operate in the range of a billion degrees centigrade.&#8221; Is that not a dead giveaway? 10^9 K is the temperature of the Big Bang at 100 sec.</p>
<p>As to the tokamak, we now have experienced 40 years of failure in that design (which admittedly is only one likely to succeed), so I don&#8217;t think it is going anywhere, although pdf27 apparently hasn&#8217;t given up on it. </p>
<p>If you have access to Science and Physics Today, you might want to read the following:</p>
<p>W. D. Metz (1976), &#8220;Fusion Research (I): What is the Program Buying the Country?,&#8221; Science, vol. 192, pp. 1320-1323.</p>
<p>W. D. Metz (1976), &#8220;Fusion (II): Detailed Reactor Studies Identify More Problems,&#8221; Science, vol. 193, pp. 38-40, 76-?</p>
<p>W. D. Metz (1976), &#8220;Fusion Research (III): New Interest in Fusion-Assisted Breeders,&#8221; Science, vol. 193, pp 307-?</p>
<p>W. E. Parkins (1978), &#8220;Engineering Limitations of Fusion Power Plants,&#8221; Science, vol. 199, pp. 1403-1408.</p>
<p>W. E. Parkins (1997), &#8220;Physics Today,&#8221; pp. 15, 101-102.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t wish to regurgitate ancient history, but there has been very little, if any, progress on the  tokamak design. </p>
<p>The real killer, however, is the cost. Back in the 70&#8242;s it was estimated that the capital cost of a working tokamak machine would be an order of magnitude larger than the cost of a fission reactor, then the most expensive source of electricity. So, even if we could somehow solve the engineering problems of the tokamak, it would have no commercial or military use.</p>
<p>The tokamak is just one of several Big Science projects that should be shut down. Nominations are open.</p>
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		<title>By: D. John 1</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2568021</link>
		<dc:creator>D. John 1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2568021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tri Alpha Energy is one of the several small programs that has emerged in the last decade and are actually worth watching. The other programs bring EMC2/ various programs looking at Polywell, the Lockmart Polywell variant project, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics, Hellion Energy, and General Atomics.

Tokamaks, Inertial compression and their kin such as pdf27&#039;s stellerator variant have gone nowhere and done nothing for 50 years, and they will GNDN for 50 more if not murdered with a joyful song on the heart. They are wonderful money siphons and jobs programs for plasma physics PHds. Nothing more. They are not designed for even extrapolation to practical energy results. ITER itself will outmass a European aircraft carrier and the neutronicity of its DT fuel cycle makes it utterly impractical for commercial energy generation. 

Every time you hear that ITER is short of money and its staff on the verge of unemployment, let it gladden your heart.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tri Alpha Energy is one of the several small programs that has emerged in the last decade and are actually worth watching. The other programs bring EMC2/ various programs looking at Polywell, the Lockmart Polywell variant project, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics, Hellion Energy, and General Atomics.</p>
<p>Tokamaks, Inertial compression and their kin such as pdf27&#8242;s stellerator variant have gone nowhere and done nothing for 50 years, and they will GNDN for 50 more if not murdered with a joyful song on the heart. They are wonderful money siphons and jobs programs for plasma physics PHds. Nothing more. They are not designed for even extrapolation to practical energy results. ITER itself will outmass a European aircraft carrier and the neutronicity of its DT fuel cycle makes it utterly impractical for commercial energy generation. </p>
<p>Every time you hear that ITER is short of money and its staff on the verge of unemployment, let it gladden your heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2567924</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2567924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops, sorry for that mess, Isegoria!

&lt;em&gt;[Isegoria: No prob! Fixed the link.]&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, sorry for that mess, Isegoria!</p>
<p><em>[Isegoria: No prob! Fixed the link.]</em></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2567923</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2567923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I started to type a long post, but instead I&#039;ll just direct anyone who&#039;s interested to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=20800&quot;&gt;this thread&lt;/a&gt;. Note especially the posts by user pdf27.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started to type a long post, but instead I&#8217;ll just direct anyone who&#8217;s interested to <a href="http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&#038;t=20800">this thread</a>. Note especially the posts by user pdf27.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sykes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2567919</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2567919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I  suggest we call these scams &quot;fusionism.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  suggest we call these scams &#8220;fusionism.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sykes</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2017/07/the-reactor-named-norman-can-operate-at-60-million-degrees-celsius/comment-page-1/#comment-2567918</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=42141#comment-2567918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It can consume a whopping 750 megawatts of power in a short burst...&quot;

Consume?? 60 million degrees?? This almost certainly yet another example of criminal fraud in the swamp of fusion power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It can consume a whopping 750 megawatts of power in a short burst&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Consume?? 60 million degrees?? This almost certainly yet another example of criminal fraud in the swamp of fusion power.</p>
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