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	<title>Comments on: Star Wars as Propaganda</title>
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	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2402237</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2015 06:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2402237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#StormtrooperLivesMatter]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#StormtrooperLivesMatter</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2402064</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2402064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let the Wookiee win.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the Wookiee win.</p>
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		<title>By: Kudzu Bob</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401994</link>
		<dc:creator>Kudzu Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 21:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe it&#039;s not popular to say this, but people at least had high-paying jobs building Death Stars when Palpatine ran things. And don&#039;t get me started about how cops these days just look the other way whenever there&#039;s trouble to keep from getting labelled as Imperialist sympathizers &#8212; my mother&#039;s so scared of Wookiees she won&#039;t even take the pedwalk any more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#8217;s not popular to say this, but people at least had high-paying jobs building Death Stars when Palpatine ran things. And don&#8217;t get me started about how cops these days just look the other way whenever there&#8217;s trouble to keep from getting labelled as Imperialist sympathizers &mdash; my mother&#8217;s so scared of Wookiees she won&#8217;t even take the pedwalk any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401809</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, I don&#039;t know. In this world I tend to favour national sovereignty and am attached to my national and cultural identity, and I don&#039;t want the UN having an independent emperor with a huge bureaucracy [it isn&#039;t that huge compared to what would be needed to rule the world] and his own military [vaster than all others put together] to impose order. 

The Republic is the UN- you want it to exist and to work, but not too well, and not meddle too much. Sometimes the price is war. If you don&#039;t want war in your own neighbourhood, manage your own nation&#039;s affairs and its foreign relations effectively and your chances are good. If not, that&#039;s the price you pay.

Alternatively, the Republic is the UN as Coruscant is to the US, if the US chose to seize control of the UN, merge with it, and rule through it. I can&#039;t say I&#039;d like that either.

And it&#039;s worth noting that the chief power hungry elites of our own time are on the side of the empire- globalization, international order, merging of peoples and cultures, standardization of law, erosion of sovereignty - &quot;for a safe and secure society&quot;. The Trade Federation and the Banking Clan are NOT Separatists in our world.

I can envision times when the universal state [the classic meaning of &#039;empire&#039;] is beneficial as the culmination of an international system, as a police measure [if you can find John Reilly&#039;s Proclamation of the Ecumenical Empire online, this is what he was getting at]or for defence against actors from outside that particular system. The Roman, multiple Chinese and multiple Indian empires served both ends. Not always well. But they also introduce new tensions as powers compete for the mastery of the empire. Longer periods of general peace may result in various-length periods of general war for control of the whole system, larger and less geographically concentrated than the local wars of before. The aforementioned empires also introduced this phenomenon repeatedly.

And there&#039;s always the all-important &#039;who,whom?&#039; question. Just whose culture and political system set up and, at least initially, run the empire from which we are all to benefit?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I don&#8217;t know. In this world I tend to favour national sovereignty and am attached to my national and cultural identity, and I don&#8217;t want the UN having an independent emperor with a huge bureaucracy [it isn't that huge compared to what would be needed to rule the world] and his own military [vaster than all others put together] to impose order. </p>
<p>The Republic is the UN- you want it to exist and to work, but not too well, and not meddle too much. Sometimes the price is war. If you don&#8217;t want war in your own neighbourhood, manage your own nation&#8217;s affairs and its foreign relations effectively and your chances are good. If not, that&#8217;s the price you pay.</p>
<p>Alternatively, the Republic is the UN as Coruscant is to the US, if the US chose to seize control of the UN, merge with it, and rule through it. I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;d like that either.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s worth noting that the chief power hungry elites of our own time are on the side of the empire- globalization, international order, merging of peoples and cultures, standardization of law, erosion of sovereignty &#8211; &#8220;for a safe and secure society&#8221;. The Trade Federation and the Banking Clan are NOT Separatists in our world.</p>
<p>I can envision times when the universal state [the classic meaning of 'empire'] is beneficial as the culmination of an international system, as a police measure [if you can find John Reilly's Proclamation of the Ecumenical Empire online, this is what he was getting at]or for defence against actors from outside that particular system. The Roman, multiple Chinese and multiple Indian empires served both ends. Not always well. But they also introduce new tensions as powers compete for the mastery of the empire. Longer periods of general peace may result in various-length periods of general war for control of the whole system, larger and less geographically concentrated than the local wars of before. The aforementioned empires also introduced this phenomenon repeatedly.</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s always the all-important &#8216;who,whom?&#8217; question. Just whose culture and political system set up and, at least initially, run the empire from which we are all to benefit?</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401787</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, hitting a womp rat is much easier with a shotgun from a stable platform.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, hitting a womp rat is much easier with a shotgun from a stable platform.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401630</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 05:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lucas told a story about a civil war, and he&#039;s American so he automatically referenced America&#039;s Civil War. The (Dark + North sound) (in)Vader who looks like a Richmond Examiner cartoon of Beast Butler or Ape Lincoln. The opening sequence of whitejackets (sailors untrained in pistolcraft) attacking the &lt;b&gt;Trent&lt;/b&gt;. The spunky Virginia Princess (egg-faced girls were hot from about 1830 until the Gilded Age kicked in). The minstrel show R2D2 and C-3P0- &#039;We don&#039;t serve your kind in here&#039;. The deified notion of Force by the slave power. The Millenium Falcon crossing the bar to the high sea- uh, jumping to hyperspace. (I think there were three different  famous smuggling ships named The Falcon in the Civil War). I think the Death Star came from a Broadway play around 1970, but every other major bit of business reeks of pulpy notions of 1861-1865.

  I suspect Lucas or his wife just plain stole the Star Wars plot and dialog from some old pulp Civil War story. A long time ago, in an antebellum Southland far, far away. . .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucas told a story about a civil war, and he&#8217;s American so he automatically referenced America&#8217;s Civil War. The (Dark + North sound) (in)Vader who looks like a Richmond Examiner cartoon of Beast Butler or Ape Lincoln. The opening sequence of whitejackets (sailors untrained in pistolcraft) attacking the <b>Trent</b>. The spunky Virginia Princess (egg-faced girls were hot from about 1830 until the Gilded Age kicked in). The minstrel show R2D2 and C-3P0- &#8216;We don&#8217;t serve your kind in here&#8217;. The deified notion of Force by the slave power. The Millenium Falcon crossing the bar to the high sea- uh, jumping to hyperspace. (I think there were three different  famous smuggling ships named The Falcon in the Civil War). I think the Death Star came from a Broadway play around 1970, but every other major bit of business reeks of pulpy notions of 1861-1865.</p>
<p>  I suspect Lucas or his wife just plain stole the Star Wars plot and dialog from some old pulp Civil War story. A long time ago, in an antebellum Southland far, far away. . .</p>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401606</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 04:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Palpatine created an army of New Zealanders. I&#039;m guessing he was more interested in farming the universe than anything else. Maybe that&#039;s why the stormtroopers can&#039;t shoot &#8212; they are more used to shotguns.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palpatine created an army of New Zealanders. I&#8217;m guessing he was more interested in farming the universe than anything else. Maybe that&#8217;s why the stormtroopers can&#8217;t shoot &mdash; they are more used to shotguns.</p>
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		<title>By: T M</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401583</link>
		<dc:creator>T M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 03:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is very difficult to criticize the Star Wars movies as a series, because Lucas turned in very inconsistent work and relied heavily on the input of other creators with divergent ideas.

However, my rough analysis is that the creative team initially wanted to deliver a black-and-white, good-versus-evil story.  Jedi are &quot;good&quot; by California standards - i.e., they do not torture people, but they are willing to tell little white lies, supplemented by &quot;jedi mind tricks.&quot;

The later movies introduced clumsy moral ambiguities, not because of some artistic vision of alternate ethics, but mostly due to incoherent writing teams.  The plot points of the later movies were simply due to confused writers who wanted to keep the fans happy in the short run.  In the long run, fans  discovered inconsistencies in their previous belief in Jedi goodness.  The publicists spun these inconsistencies as evidence that the writers were aiming for morally ambiguous Jedi, but in fact the writers were just short-term thinkers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very difficult to criticize the Star Wars movies as a series, because Lucas turned in very inconsistent work and relied heavily on the input of other creators with divergent ideas.</p>
<p>However, my rough analysis is that the creative team initially wanted to deliver a black-and-white, good-versus-evil story.  Jedi are &#8220;good&#8221; by California standards &#8211; i.e., they do not torture people, but they are willing to tell little white lies, supplemented by &#8220;jedi mind tricks.&#8221;</p>
<p>The later movies introduced clumsy moral ambiguities, not because of some artistic vision of alternate ethics, but mostly due to incoherent writing teams.  The plot points of the later movies were simply due to confused writers who wanted to keep the fans happy in the short run.  In the long run, fans  discovered inconsistencies in their previous belief in Jedi goodness.  The publicists spun these inconsistencies as evidence that the writers were aiming for morally ambiguous Jedi, but in fact the writers were just short-term thinkers.</p>
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		<title>By: Wow Just Wow</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401512</link>
		<dc:creator>Wow Just Wow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 01:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;He had to recruit the kind of folks he could, not necessarily the folks he wanted — and if you have to fight against shiny-eyed, pure-hearted idealists — duped by an evil cabal with silver tongues and Jedi Mind Tricks — the kind of folks you can recruit against them are not going to be particularly wholesome characters.&quot;

Who&#039;s unwholesome, besides Vader? Palpatine manufactured a loyal army of clone infantry, which was a good move. But while he was able to sweep away the entire Foggy Bottom bureaucracy, he still had to rely on Arlington&#039;s leadership class which was left over from a weak, decadent era when they cooked up such stupid stunts as forcing soldiers of the Republic to walk in high heels to show solidarity with victims of sexual assault. The officers constantly bungle major combat operations and occasionally Vader will force-choke them to try to hold them accountable, but it seems Palpatine could find no viable replacements for that weak leadership class as a whole. Admittedly, the best of them were probably lost in the first Death Star, which is why Vader has to force-choke so damn many officers in Empire Strikes Back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He had to recruit the kind of folks he could, not necessarily the folks he wanted — and if you have to fight against shiny-eyed, pure-hearted idealists — duped by an evil cabal with silver tongues and Jedi Mind Tricks — the kind of folks you can recruit against them are not going to be particularly wholesome characters.&#8221;</p>
<p>Who&#8217;s unwholesome, besides Vader? Palpatine manufactured a loyal army of clone infantry, which was a good move. But while he was able to sweep away the entire Foggy Bottom bureaucracy, he still had to rely on Arlington&#8217;s leadership class which was left over from a weak, decadent era when they cooked up such stupid stunts as forcing soldiers of the Republic to walk in high heels to show solidarity with victims of sexual assault. The officers constantly bungle major combat operations and occasionally Vader will force-choke them to try to hold them accountable, but it seems Palpatine could find no viable replacements for that weak leadership class as a whole. Admittedly, the best of them were probably lost in the first Death Star, which is why Vader has to force-choke so damn many officers in Empire Strikes Back.</p>
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		<title>By: A Boy and His Dog</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2015/09/star-wars-as-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-2401474</link>
		<dc:creator>A Boy and His Dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 00:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=38981#comment-2401474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always thought the series would be richer if Episode I started with a young idealistic Vader witnessing evil acts perpetrated by a corrupt and inefficient aristocracy, and vowing change. Then by Episode III he and his colleagues overthrow the aristocracy and celebrate the creation of their Empire of Peace. The Empire you see at the beginning of Episode IV is a while later after the new Empire has also become corrupted and entered its Stalinism phase. Basically use the Soviet Revolution as the model for the narrative. And what if Leia was actually stolen as a baby to be a hostage against the Empire? There are so many ways to improve this narrative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought the series would be richer if Episode I started with a young idealistic Vader witnessing evil acts perpetrated by a corrupt and inefficient aristocracy, and vowing change. Then by Episode III he and his colleagues overthrow the aristocracy and celebrate the creation of their Empire of Peace. The Empire you see at the beginning of Episode IV is a while later after the new Empire has also become corrupted and entered its Stalinism phase. Basically use the Soviet Revolution as the model for the narrative. And what if Leia was actually stolen as a baby to be a hostage against the Empire? There are so many ways to improve this narrative.</p>
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