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	<title>Comments on: IQ Shredders</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-3487470</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2022 19:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-3487470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s engineered.

And for all the hand-wringing about &quot;IQ shredding&quot; it almost certainly isn&#039;t going quickly enough to account for the rapid advance of special AI, robotics, and plain old hardware-software productivity improvement i.e. labor-saving techne i.e. labor elimination.

The old control mechanism (artificially imposed scarcity) is a candle burned down to the very last. They&#039;re in a race against the clock to establish and lock in a better control mechanism before a certain critical mass is reached.

The tipping point is the point at which a sufficient quantity and quality of young men have nothing to lose and a world to gain.

Many believe that the time is imminent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s engineered.</p>
<p>And for all the hand-wringing about &#8220;IQ shredding&#8221; it almost certainly isn&#8217;t going quickly enough to account for the rapid advance of special AI, robotics, and plain old hardware-software productivity improvement i.e. labor-saving techne i.e. labor elimination.</p>
<p>The old control mechanism (artificially imposed scarcity) is a candle burned down to the very last. They&#8217;re in a race against the clock to establish and lock in a better control mechanism before a certain critical mass is reached.</p>
<p>The tipping point is the point at which a sufficient quantity and quality of young men have nothing to lose and a world to gain.</p>
<p>Many believe that the time is imminent.</p>
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		<title>By: Ya Nie Choshiou Rabotaet Ve Singapore</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-3453607</link>
		<dc:creator>Ya Nie Choshiou Rabotaet Ve Singapore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2021 16:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[You can&#039;t measure the fertility accurately if you don&#039;t correctly assess where their babies are born... :) 

There is a lot to be gained for some better-remain-invisible people that this remains obscured.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t measure the fertility accurately if you don&#8217;t correctly assess where their babies are born&#8230; :) </p>
<p>There is a lot to be gained for some better-remain-invisible people that this remains obscured.</p>
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		<title>By: NZNLIMRW</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-3380913</link>
		<dc:creator>NZNLIMRW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-3380913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;&quot;Correct. It is a form of truncation selection.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

A good counterexample would be the allele for sickle cell anemia. It&#039;s fairly lethal to be homozygous, but advantageous to be heterozygous in regions with endemic malaria. If &quot;sS&quot; has sufficient advantage over &quot;SS&quot;, it can persist, even if &quot;ss&quot; reduces fitness. This is even more generally true if there are thousands of alleles that affect the trait, rendering it effectively continuous. 

Try this: simulate a Fokker-Planck-like equation with an absorbing state (say, density below 0 is removed from the system). Add a homeostatic constraint  on the population density (assume we can treat normalized population in the region outside the &quot;shredder&quot; as constant, or at least equal or above replacement). Then, make the &quot;not in shredder&quot; dynamics follow e.g. an Ornstein-Uhlenbeck process with some mean drift toward zero (intelligence is good), and some diffusion rate (phenotypes diffuse). You&#039;ll find that there is a wide range of parameters for which intelligence remains competitive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Correct. It is a form of truncation selection.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>A good counterexample would be the allele for sickle cell anemia. It&#8217;s fairly lethal to be homozygous, but advantageous to be heterozygous in regions with endemic malaria. If &#8220;sS&#8221; has sufficient advantage over &#8220;SS&#8221;, it can persist, even if &#8220;ss&#8221; reduces fitness. This is even more generally true if there are thousands of alleles that affect the trait, rendering it effectively continuous. </p>
<p>Try this: simulate a Fokker-Planck-like equation with an absorbing state (say, density below 0 is removed from the system). Add a homeostatic constraint  on the population density (assume we can treat normalized population in the region outside the &#8220;shredder&#8221; as constant, or at least equal or above replacement). Then, make the &#8220;not in shredder&#8221; dynamics follow e.g. an Ornstein-Uhlenbeck process with some mean drift toward zero (intelligence is good), and some diffusion rate (phenotypes diffuse). You&#8217;ll find that there is a wide range of parameters for which intelligence remains competitive.</p>
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		<title>By: The Fourth Doorman of the Apocalypse</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1379296</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fourth Doorman of the Apocalypse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2014 19:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1379296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;No, it’s not. If you cream off the top 10% and they reproduce much less, then there’s selection pressure against the alleles responsible.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Correct. It is a form of truncation selection.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>No, it’s not. If you cream off the top 10% and they reproduce much less, then there’s selection pressure against the alleles responsible.</p></blockquote>
<p>Correct. It is a form of truncation selection.</p>
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		<title>By: A.B. Prosper</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1376427</link>
		<dc:creator>A.B. Prosper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1376427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Policy has consequences, and maybe overcrowding, diversity, and a police state are bad for the fertility of people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Policy has consequences, and maybe overcrowding, diversity, and a police state are bad for the fertility of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwern</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1374387</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1374387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;This is a fallacy. Let me explain.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, it&#039;s not. If you cream off the top 10% and they reproduce much less, then there&#039;s selection pressure against the alleles responsible. It doesn&#039;t matter if IQ is highly polygenic or fits your toy model, or if most ultra-smart people are from less-smart parents. The selection pressure is still there.

That said, I&#039;m not too concerned because I expect various forms of embryo selection and genetic engineering to be viable within a generation or two, well before the IQ shredders could do terribly much damage, and if there&#039;s one thing Singapore could afford, it&#039;s paying for that. (I think they already subsidize kids at least as much as IVF would cost.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This is a fallacy. Let me explain.</p></blockquote>
<p>No, it&#8217;s not. If you cream off the top 10% and they reproduce much less, then there&#8217;s selection pressure against the alleles responsible. It doesn&#8217;t matter if IQ is highly polygenic or fits your toy model, or if most ultra-smart people are from less-smart parents. The selection pressure is still there.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m not too concerned because I expect various forms of embryo selection and genetic engineering to be viable within a generation or two, well before the IQ shredders could do terribly much damage, and if there&#8217;s one thing Singapore could afford, it&#8217;s paying for that. (I think they already subsidize kids at least as much as IVF would cost.)</p>
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		<title>By: James James</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1373413</link>
		<dc:creator>James James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2014 07:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1373413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The Law of Parsimony suggests there are two genes involved for Smarts&quot;

No. Just no. I don&#039;t think I&#039;m quoting you out of context. 

&quot;What I am trying to briefly point out is that the largest source of the really smart is the large reservoir of smart alleles in the middling smart.&quot;

That&#039;s a bit more reasonable. Regression to the mean works both ways. Just as the children of smart people tend to be closer to the mean, also the parents of smart people tend to be closer to the mean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Law of Parsimony suggests there are two genes involved for Smarts&#8221;</p>
<p>No. Just no. I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m quoting you out of context. </p>
<p>&#8220;What I am trying to briefly point out is that the largest source of the really smart is the large reservoir of smart alleles in the middling smart.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a bit more reasonable. Regression to the mean works both ways. Just as the children of smart people tend to be closer to the mean, also the parents of smart people tend to be closer to the mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Spandrell</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1372920</link>
		<dc:creator>Spandrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2014 03:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1372920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d say most of Singapore is middling brights. Singapore isn&#039;t known for it&#039;s geniuses &#8212; it&#039;s a thoroughly middle class place &#8212; but the sort of people who would have three kids in a middle-sized American town.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say most of Singapore is middling brights. Singapore isn&#8217;t known for it&#8217;s geniuses &mdash; it&#8217;s a thoroughly middle class place &mdash; but the sort of people who would have three kids in a middle-sized American town.</p>
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		<title>By: Barnabas</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1372719</link>
		<dc:creator>Barnabas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2014 02:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1372719</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So what places qualify as IQ farms?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what places qualify as IQ farms?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kurt</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/07/iq-shredders/comment-page-1/#comment-1372623</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2014 01:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=35672#comment-1372623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: &quot;and depress their fertility to 0.78, wasting valuable genes.&quot; Spandrell

This is a  fallacy. Let me explain.

Spandrell assumes that Bright begets Bright but Middling Bright begets more Bright because there are more middlings.

The Law of Parsimony suggests there are two genes involved for Smarts and are alleles*: say, s and S. If one has ss one is Smart. If one has sS one is middling Smart. If one has SS one is dull. If the smart % in a population is 7% with IQs over 120 that means 7% of the population is ss. Using the Hardy-Weinberg law the % of sS in the population is circa 26%. The sS population is more than 25% of the population and that population will generate ss individuals in one out of 4 births if two sS mate. That same population will generate two out of four sS. (If IQ is polygenetic a similar but more complicated analysis shows a similar generation of the really smart as mainly coming from the middling bright.)

What I am trying to briefly point out is that the largest source of the really smart is the large reservoir of smart alleles in the middling smart.

Dan Kurt

*http://www.v-weiss.de/majgenes.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;and depress their fertility to 0.78, wasting valuable genes.&#8221; Spandrell</p>
<p>This is a  fallacy. Let me explain.</p>
<p>Spandrell assumes that Bright begets Bright but Middling Bright begets more Bright because there are more middlings.</p>
<p>The Law of Parsimony suggests there are two genes involved for Smarts and are alleles*: say, s and S. If one has ss one is Smart. If one has sS one is middling Smart. If one has SS one is dull. If the smart % in a population is 7% with IQs over 120 that means 7% of the population is ss. Using the Hardy-Weinberg law the % of sS in the population is circa 26%. The sS population is more than 25% of the population and that population will generate ss individuals in one out of 4 births if two sS mate. That same population will generate two out of four sS. (If IQ is polygenetic a similar but more complicated analysis shows a similar generation of the really smart as mainly coming from the middling bright.)</p>
<p>What I am trying to briefly point out is that the largest source of the really smart is the large reservoir of smart alleles in the middling smart.</p>
<p>Dan Kurt</p>
<p>*http://www.v-weiss.de/majgenes.html</p>
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