Comments on: To kill without running the risk of being killed

By: Toddy Cat

Toddy Cat — Mon, 19 May 2014 15:07:07 +0000

Yes, people can claim to be anything online. And yes, that sounds about right. My dad was certainly proud of serving his country, but he never bragged about his bravery or the risks he took. I’m sure that there are some good soldiers who are are blowhards, but in my experience, they are very much the exception, not the rule.

By: Zhai2Nan2

Zhai2Nan2 — Sun, 18 May 2014 12:14:17 +0000

Rollory & Alrenous: thanks for the author references.

Scipio Americanus: indeed, risk is inevitable and danger is horrifyingly unpredictable.

Toddy Cat: Most of the braggarts are only known to me online. I don’t even know that they are actual combat vets. Many years ago I spoke to a combat vet whose story checked out, and I think he was unquestionably proud of his combat performance, but he didn’t boast of the risks he took, but rather the results that he accomplished.

By: Erik

Erik — Sat, 17 May 2014 15:32:13 +0000

One of the parties may be fighting a delaying action.

By: Nick B. Steves

Nick B. Steves — Fri, 16 May 2014 20:46:13 +0000

If you get into a fair fight, someone in your chain of command has made a strategic error.

What other reason could there be for a fight? If the outcome of the fight is certain, there would be no reason to fight it. Unless at least one of the parties were insane. (Which may be a realistic possibility.)

By: Toddy Cat

Toddy Cat — Fri, 16 May 2014 19:06:34 +0000

In WWII, they called those guys “Garritroopers” or “Chairborne Commandos”. My father, an actual WWII combat veteran, used to tell all sorts of war stories, but most were either funny or horrifying, and none glorified himself. When I pressed him about this once, he said rather severely, “All the real heroes died over there”. I never pushed it again.

By: Scipio Americanus

Scipio Americanus — Fri, 16 May 2014 18:31:02 +0000

Now that you mention it, Toddy Cat, none of the men I’ve known who’ve been in combat have said anything like that either. It’s important to remember that, as you note, Zhai2Nan2, very few soldiers in a modern army are involved in the actual fighting. The general progress of warfare in the last century has been to make that an ever smaller number of people, substituting technological firepower for sheer weight of meat. You may have been talking to boastful support personnel with little combat experience.

By: Toddy Cat

Toddy Cat — Fri, 16 May 2014 17:49:51 +0000

I’ve almost never heard an actual combat soldier brag that he risked his life. Maybe you’re hanging out with the wrong kind of soldiers.

By: Alrenous

Alrenous — Fri, 16 May 2014 15:31:18 +0000

“I can not find a specific citation for this, so it may be bullcrap, but Jerry Pournelle has repeatedly referred to Frederick the Great saying that “the peasants in the fields and the burgers in the towns should neither know nor care if the State is at war”.”

Because I’m a Serious Intellectual, my source is David Eddings. The sections with the Arendish serfs, they express this sentiment. Given Edding’s age it means that’s what he found in his background research. I think it also shows up in the Tamuli when Sparhawk stops at some random manor. (I remember the scene, I remember the writing style, but I can’t remember who’s in it.)

By: Scipio Americanus

Scipio Americanus — Fri, 16 May 2014 14:58:40 +0000

Zhai2Nan2, even the best executed ambush carries significant risk for the ambushers, and even if the attacker achieves strategic surprise there’s often going to be a lot of head-to-head slogging at the tactical scale. It’s often simply unavoidable.

Both Friction and the Fog of War conspire to render even the best plans unreliable in such an inherently unstable environment. That’s why pushing initiative down to the lowest level possible is so important. The men on the scene frequently have the best grasp of what’s going on, even if its still critical that the general thrust of their efforts be coordinated from above.

By: Rollory

Rollory — Fri, 16 May 2014 14:14:46 +0000

I should add: an essential part of gaming through a surprise attack (both on the offense and defense) is intelligence gathering, and understanding the other’s position. If you do it well, you can guess that the other player has reason to want to backstab you, and be prepared for it; or you can cloak your intentions and capabilities so as to lull them into complacency. It’s an entire other level of skill and maneuvering. What most of these players who insist on clear warnings want is not to have to think about it. They don’t want to do the work to figure out what the other guy might be doing, or wanting, or thinking. They want it all clear and telegraphed. They don’t want to have to deal with actual human motivations.

Again, when transferring these sorts of attitudes to the real world, the consequences tend toward the disastrous.