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	<title>Comments on: The Defence of Duffer&#8217;s Drift, Fifth Dream, Outcome</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1243235</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2014 00:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1243235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With regards to the ammo, back in the setup for the 1st dream the text mentioned that they were well supplied with ammo. I don&#039;t know if that&#039;s enough for the sort of shooting described in this dream, but quite possible. They were set up for a static defense after all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regards to the ammo, back in the setup for the 1st dream the text mentioned that they were well supplied with ammo. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s enough for the sort of shooting described in this dream, but quite possible. They were set up for a static defense after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1243224</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2014 00:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1243224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In that opening phase during which the British force did most of its damage the Boers hadn&#039;t gone to ground yet; the tactical situation had not yet developed, the Boer commander wouldn&#039;t have wanted to give up on the possibility of offensive action, and even once he knew what he wanted to do it would take 5-10 minutes just to inform all his subordinates, and another couple of minutes for them to get their men moving. 

The immediate response of the Boers (and I interpret the text to indicate that this is indeed the case) would have been to go from loose column of march to a dispersed skirmish line with the interval anywhere from 1 to 3 meters. Assuming a 300 man main body that&#039;s a total frontage somewhere from 150 to 900 meters depending on whether he stacks his main force or not. Probably the latter, as Boer tactics leaned towards maximum force on line to develop superior firepower, giving up the ability to generate the sequential offensive impulses sought by European commanders.

Thus the length of time needed for his runners to inform everyone of any new orders once his force had deployed. Dispersing them to defensive positions in cover or concealment as he did later would have been hasty before he knew exactly what he was up against. The amount of time needed to herd them all back together and get them straightened out enough to maneuver might have resulted in more casualties than simply performing that maneuver from the deployed state. Hence, 5-10 minutes to deploy once they had come under fire, 5-10 minutes to figure out what they were up against and that they couldn&#039;t tackle it offensively (without prohibitive casualties), 5-10 minutes for the Boer commander to get his orders to everyone, and 5 minutes or so for them to get into cover where they couldn&#039;t be shot at. Total: 25-35 min. Those are all exceedingly rough estimates, of course.

As Clausewitz pointed out: &quot;In war everything is very simple, but the simplest thing becomes very difficult.&quot; Everything takes longer than it seems like it should, especially with hundreds of people involved.

At those ranges, against 300 Boers in open line on the plain, 0.5% accuracy sounds about right. Only way to find out for sure would be to do some experiments. Happily, they&#039;ve already been done. I have a book around here somewhere that was written just after the Boer War, presenting the various positions taken in tactical debates of the time as well as the data resulting from the experiments in long-range rifle and artillery accuracy against bodies of troops made by various countries. I&#039;ll see if I can dig it up.

This has reminded me that I should write the remaining sections in my &quot;Victorian Tactics&quot; series.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that opening phase during which the British force did most of its damage the Boers hadn&#8217;t gone to ground yet; the tactical situation had not yet developed, the Boer commander wouldn&#8217;t have wanted to give up on the possibility of offensive action, and even once he knew what he wanted to do it would take 5-10 minutes just to inform all his subordinates, and another couple of minutes for them to get their men moving. </p>
<p>The immediate response of the Boers (and I interpret the text to indicate that this is indeed the case) would have been to go from loose column of march to a dispersed skirmish line with the interval anywhere from 1 to 3 meters. Assuming a 300 man main body that&#8217;s a total frontage somewhere from 150 to 900 meters depending on whether he stacks his main force or not. Probably the latter, as Boer tactics leaned towards maximum force on line to develop superior firepower, giving up the ability to generate the sequential offensive impulses sought by European commanders.</p>
<p>Thus the length of time needed for his runners to inform everyone of any new orders once his force had deployed. Dispersing them to defensive positions in cover or concealment as he did later would have been hasty before he knew exactly what he was up against. The amount of time needed to herd them all back together and get them straightened out enough to maneuver might have resulted in more casualties than simply performing that maneuver from the deployed state. Hence, 5-10 minutes to deploy once they had come under fire, 5-10 minutes to figure out what they were up against and that they couldn&#8217;t tackle it offensively (without prohibitive casualties), 5-10 minutes for the Boer commander to get his orders to everyone, and 5 minutes or so for them to get into cover where they couldn&#8217;t be shot at. Total: 25-35 min. Those are all exceedingly rough estimates, of course.</p>
<p>As Clausewitz pointed out: &#8220;In war everything is very simple, but the simplest thing becomes very difficult.&#8221; Everything takes longer than it seems like it should, especially with hundreds of people involved.</p>
<p>At those ranges, against 300 Boers in open line on the plain, 0.5% accuracy sounds about right. Only way to find out for sure would be to do some experiments. Happily, they&#8217;ve already been done. I have a book around here somewhere that was written just after the Boer War, presenting the various positions taken in tactical debates of the time as well as the data resulting from the experiments in long-range rifle and artillery accuracy against bodies of troops made by various countries. I&#8217;ll see if I can dig it up.</p>
<p>This has reminded me that I should write the remaining sections in my &#8220;Victorian Tactics&#8221; series.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1243162</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 23:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1243162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know if British riflemen could achieve 1% accuracy at 1500 meters against men in the open, but I suspect their hit rate would drop below even 0.5% against men who&#039;d dispersed and gone to ground.  With an accuracy of 0.1% (1/1,000), that would imply 15 hits out of 15,000.  With an accuracy of 0.01% (1/10,000), that would imply 1.5 hits.  (Did British riflemen even carry 300 rounds?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if British riflemen could achieve 1% accuracy at 1500 meters against men in the open, but I suspect their hit rate would drop below even 0.5% against men who&#8217;d dispersed and gone to ground.  With an accuracy of 0.1% (1/1,000), that would imply 15 hits out of 15,000.  With an accuracy of 0.01% (1/10,000), that would imply 1.5 hits.  (Did British riflemen even carry 300 rounds?)</p>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1242736</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 17:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1242736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My interpretation of the text would indicate that this phase of the battle (fire upon the Boer main body opened out into skirmish line on the flat veldt) lasted probably around 30 minutes, so at 10 rds/rifleman/min with 50 riflemen, 0.005 hits/rd (optimistic, if anything) gives 75 hits. I&#039;d say 30 to 50 hits is more likely.

Given that the whole Boer force is 500 men, the main body is probably around 300-400 men strong. 30-40 hits decimates them in that case, which is pretty nasty. Their morale would be hurting at that point since they couldn&#039;t see the enemy, and their general and obvious exposure to fire wouldn&#039;t help things. Hence the confusion.

The Boer commander was in a tight spot, and made the right decision given the information at hand. Sending his men to ground took away any realistic chance at building enough forward momentum for an assault, but since he controlled the surrounding countryside and greatly outnumbered the British force (he would have been able get a rough idea of the numbers from the weight of fire and their passive behavior) there was little cost to simply waiting until night to slip past. His scouts would warn him of any British maneuver forces, in which case he could withdraw, and given the situation there was no chance of the British slipping a runner out in time to warn any such force if it wasn&#039;t already on the way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My interpretation of the text would indicate that this phase of the battle (fire upon the Boer main body opened out into skirmish line on the flat veldt) lasted probably around 30 minutes, so at 10 rds/rifleman/min with 50 riflemen, 0.005 hits/rd (optimistic, if anything) gives 75 hits. I&#8217;d say 30 to 50 hits is more likely.</p>
<p>Given that the whole Boer force is 500 men, the main body is probably around 300-400 men strong. 30-40 hits decimates them in that case, which is pretty nasty. Their morale would be hurting at that point since they couldn&#8217;t see the enemy, and their general and obvious exposure to fire wouldn&#8217;t help things. Hence the confusion.</p>
<p>The Boer commander was in a tight spot, and made the right decision given the information at hand. Sending his men to ground took away any realistic chance at building enough forward momentum for an assault, but since he controlled the surrounding countryside and greatly outnumbered the British force (he would have been able get a rough idea of the numbers from the weight of fire and their passive behavior) there was little cost to simply waiting until night to slip past. His scouts would warn him of any British maneuver forces, in which case he could withdraw, and given the situation there was no chance of the British slipping a runner out in time to warn any such force if it wasn&#8217;t already on the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1242687</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 17:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1242687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t doubt that 50 riflemen could &lt;em&gt;cause great confusion&lt;/em&gt; at 1500 meters, but I doubt they&#039;d do &lt;em&gt;a good deal of damage&lt;/em&gt; &#8212; depending on your definition.  I suppose 50 riflemen × 10 rounds/rifleman × 1% accuracy &#8594; 5 hits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t doubt that 50 riflemen could <em>cause great confusion</em> at 1500 meters, but I doubt they&#8217;d do <em>a good deal of damage</em> &mdash; depending on your definition.  I suppose 50 riflemen × 10 rounds/rifleman × 1% accuracy &rarr; 5 hits.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1241573</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 00:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1241573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In this dream BF is having his unit do volley fire at the Boer column instead of individual aimed fire. 

See &lt;a href=&quot;http:  //1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=154590&quot;&gt;Volley fire vs aimed fire&lt;/a&gt; for a discussion of volley fire.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this dream BF is having his unit do volley fire at the Boer column instead of individual aimed fire. </p>
<p>See <a href="http:  //1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=154590">Volley fire vs aimed fire</a> for a discussion of volley fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1240967</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 16:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1240967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the get-go, I was wondering about the high ground &#8212; the table mountain and the sugarloaf hill &#8212; and whether 50 riflemen could hold the pass from either position.  I assumed they could cover the main way &lt;em&gt;to&lt;/em&gt; the pass, but they couldn&#039;t cover the pass itself.

In this fifth dream though, our protagonist has his men open fire on the main body some 1500 meters away, doing &lt;em&gt;a good deal of damage&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;causing great confusion&lt;/em&gt;.  A little &lt;a href=&quot;http://kieranmcmullen.com/2012/10/07/weapons-of-the-second-boer-war/&quot;&gt;research&lt;/a&gt; though suggests that the Lee-Metford rifle of the time had an effective range &#8212; meaning the average shooter should hit a human target 50% of the time at that range &#8212; of 500 to 800 meters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the get-go, I was wondering about the high ground &mdash; the table mountain and the sugarloaf hill &mdash; and whether 50 riflemen could hold the pass from either position.  I assumed they could cover the main way <em>to</em> the pass, but they couldn&#8217;t cover the pass itself.</p>
<p>In this fifth dream though, our protagonist has his men open fire on the main body some 1500 meters away, doing <em>a good deal of damage</em> and <em>causing great confusion</em>.  A little <a href="http://kieranmcmullen.com/2012/10/07/weapons-of-the-second-boer-war/">research</a> though suggests that the Lee-Metford rifle of the time had an effective range &mdash; meaning the average shooter should hit a human target 50% of the time at that range &mdash; of 500 to 800 meters.</p>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1240896</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 15:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1240896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Grasspunk; I&#039;m quite fond of having them here in general. The only thing that would improve it would be more hashing out of the tactical situation in the comments. Think Isegoria&#039;s 10 instead of Xenophon&#039;s 10,000 :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Grasspunk; I&#8217;m quite fond of having them here in general. The only thing that would improve it would be more hashing out of the tactical situation in the comments. Think Isegoria&#8217;s 10 instead of Xenophon&#8217;s 10,000 :D</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1240888</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 15:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1240888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Grasspunk.  Without a break between dreams, it&#039;s too easy to skim ahead to the &quot;right&quot; answer without &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; thinking through the lessons and taking a stab at what you&#039;d do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Grasspunk.  Without a break between dreams, it&#8217;s too easy to skim ahead to the &#8220;right&#8221; answer without <em>really</em> thinking through the lessons and taking a stab at what you&#8217;d do.</p>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/05/the-defence-of-duffers-drift-fifth-dream-outcome/comment-page-1/#comment-1240714</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 13:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34768#comment-1240714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I prefer your daily episodic presentation better than reading the book.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I prefer your daily episodic presentation better than reading the book.</p>
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