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	<title>Comments on: Why Toyota Moved to Texas</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1223254</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1223254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a crucial difference between collecting the same amount of tax revenue through income taxes or through property taxes.  Income taxes hit &lt;em&gt;labor&lt;/em&gt;, which is rather &lt;em&gt;elastic&lt;/em&gt;, while property taxes hit real estate, which is much less elastic.

With higher property taxes, monthly payments for homes don&#039;t change much.  More goes to the government, in the form of taxes, and less goes to the bank, in the form of mortgage payments &#8212; because the sale price is lower &#8212; but the monthly payment should come out roughly the same.

Of course, you don&#039;t want to be stuck with a mortgage on a house you bought just before a property-tax hike.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a crucial difference between collecting the same amount of tax revenue through income taxes or through property taxes.  Income taxes hit <em>labor</em>, which is rather <em>elastic</em>, while property taxes hit real estate, which is much less elastic.</p>
<p>With higher property taxes, monthly payments for homes don&#8217;t change much.  More goes to the government, in the form of taxes, and less goes to the bank, in the form of mortgage payments &mdash; because the sale price is lower &mdash; but the monthly payment should come out roughly the same.</p>
<p>Of course, you don&#8217;t want to be stuck with a mortgage on a house you bought just before a property-tax hike.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Angell</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1222478</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Angell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2014 01:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1222478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Plano has city, school, and county property taxes that total 2.26 percent.&quot;

That sounds about normal here.  I pay just shy of 3%. It varies from place to place.

Just to put that in perspective (just in case 2-3% sounds like peanuts to some people).

If you assume a natural rate of interest ~5%, a $200,000 house in Plano corresponds to $10,000 in imputed rent (basically, the $200,000 corresponds to the net present value of a discounted $10,000 a year perpetual cash flow).  That $200,000 house will land the city/county/school district ~$4,500 (I&#039;m rounding) per year in &#039;rent&#039;.  So, $4,500/$14,500 = 31% tax on the &#039;income&#039; of that property.  Conversely, with no tax, the property would be worth (at ~5% natural/discount rate) about $290,000 since the family is willing to pay $14,500 annually to live there - again, your corresponding 31% price discount, by my crummy math, anyway, caused by the property tax.  The city/county/schools effectively &#039;seize&#039; $90,000 of the value of the house and rent it out.  

(Supposing we rounded the California rate to 1%, the corresponding number is ~17%).

Most people would say a 31% income tax is pretty high, granted it is limited to only one asset class.  Texas is a great place, don&#039;t get me wrong, and Plano surely does seem like a nice place to live.  But a lot of that &#039;too good to be true&#039; stuff you hear really is too good to be true.  Texas doesn&#039;t get to flout basic economics.  The laws of the universe operate here, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Plano has city, school, and county property taxes that total 2.26 percent.&#8221;</p>
<p>That sounds about normal here.  I pay just shy of 3%. It varies from place to place.</p>
<p>Just to put that in perspective (just in case 2-3% sounds like peanuts to some people).</p>
<p>If you assume a natural rate of interest ~5%, a $200,000 house in Plano corresponds to $10,000 in imputed rent (basically, the $200,000 corresponds to the net present value of a discounted $10,000 a year perpetual cash flow).  That $200,000 house will land the city/county/school district ~$4,500 (I&#8217;m rounding) per year in &#8216;rent&#8217;.  So, $4,500/$14,500 = 31% tax on the &#8216;income&#8217; of that property.  Conversely, with no tax, the property would be worth (at ~5% natural/discount rate) about $290,000 since the family is willing to pay $14,500 annually to live there &#8211; again, your corresponding 31% price discount, by my crummy math, anyway, caused by the property tax.  The city/county/schools effectively &#8216;seize&#8217; $90,000 of the value of the house and rent it out.  </p>
<p>(Supposing we rounded the California rate to 1%, the corresponding number is ~17%).</p>
<p>Most people would say a 31% income tax is pretty high, granted it is limited to only one asset class.  Texas is a great place, don&#8217;t get me wrong, and Plano surely does seem like a nice place to live.  But a lot of that &#8216;too good to be true&#8217; stuff you hear really is too good to be true.  Texas doesn&#8217;t get to flout basic economics.  The laws of the universe operate here, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1222319</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1222319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Torrance, by the way, appears to have a property tax rate of 1.075651 percent, near the bottom of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-city-property-tax-table,0,5795060.htmlstory#axzz30JheXRAT&quot;&gt;LA County cities&#039; property tax rates&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torrance, by the way, appears to have a property tax rate of 1.075651 percent, near the bottom of <a href="http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-city-property-tax-table,0,5795060.htmlstory#axzz30JheXRAT">LA County cities&#8217; property tax rates</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Aretae</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1222294</link>
		<dc:creator>Aretae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1222294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I share Ms. Postrel&#039;s belief in the conversational assumption. Less so in Austin.  Somewhat less so in Houston.  Lots in San Antonio.  Lots in Dallas.  Coming from California, Austin, or Chicago, she&#039;s spot on.  It&#039;s a palpable difference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share Ms. Postrel&#8217;s belief in the conversational assumption. Less so in Austin.  Somewhat less so in Houston.  Lots in San Antonio.  Lots in Dallas.  Coming from California, Austin, or Chicago, she&#8217;s spot on.  It&#8217;s a palpable difference.</p>
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		<title>By: William Newman</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1222231</link>
		<dc:creator>William Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1222231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For what it&#039;s worth, I live in Plano, and I&#039;ve never encountered &quot;the conversational assumption that everyone belongs to a religious congregation of some kind.&quot; It wouldn&#039;t astonish me if I did encounter it; there is a lot of religion here. And I don&#039;t doubt Postrel &#8212; not just reporter but book author and for some years editor of &lt;cite&gt;Reason&lt;/cite&gt;, almost certainly talks to a whole lot of folks &#8212; encountered it multiple times, because she might have had at least two orders of magnitude more conversational partners than I did, and almost certainly encountered a somewhat different population than I do. But I worked for Nortel in Plano for a couple of years without encountering it, so I think my experience has enough overlap with corporate Toyotans&#039; that many of them won&#039;t encounter it very often either.

Other stuff sounds about right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I live in Plano, and I&#8217;ve never encountered &#8220;the conversational assumption that everyone belongs to a religious congregation of some kind.&#8221; It wouldn&#8217;t astonish me if I did encounter it; there is a lot of religion here. And I don&#8217;t doubt Postrel &mdash; not just reporter but book author and for some years editor of <cite>Reason</cite>, almost certainly talks to a whole lot of folks &mdash; encountered it multiple times, because she might have had at least two orders of magnitude more conversational partners than I did, and almost certainly encountered a somewhat different population than I do. But I worked for Nortel in Plano for a couple of years without encountering it, so I think my experience has enough overlap with corporate Toyotans&#8217; that many of them won&#8217;t encounter it very often either.</p>
<p>Other stuff sounds about right.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1222186</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1222186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was going to bring up property taxes.  Incidentally, Texas has no &lt;em&gt;state&lt;/em&gt; property taxes, but Plano has city, school, and county property taxes that total &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.davedowns.com/propertytaxes.htm&quot;&gt;2.26 percent&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to bring up property taxes.  Incidentally, Texas has no <em>state</em> property taxes, but Plano has city, school, and county property taxes that total <a href="http://www.davedowns.com/propertytaxes.htm">2.26 percent</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Angell</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-toyota-moved-to-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-1222123</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Angell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34945#comment-1222123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Those sorts of analyses always overlook one of the most important facts about housing costs in Texas &#8212; in general, property taxes are sky high in order to make up for the absence of any state income taxes.  Believe me, you pay for that low sales price.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those sorts of analyses always overlook one of the most important facts about housing costs in Texas &mdash; in general, property taxes are sky high in order to make up for the absence of any state income taxes.  Believe me, you pay for that low sales price.</p>
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