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	<title>Comments on: Why national honour trumps rationality</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/comment-page-1/#comment-1192201</link>
		<dc:creator>Alrenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2014 22:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34597#comment-1192201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TV Tropes&#039; &lt;a href=&quot;http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawVulcan&quot;&gt;Straw Vulcan&lt;/a&gt; seems close enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TV Tropes&#8217; <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawVulcan">Straw Vulcan</a> seems close enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex J.</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/comment-page-1/#comment-1191971</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34597#comment-1191971</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps, &quot;narrow rationality&quot; or maybe &quot;first order analysis&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps, &#8220;narrow rationality&#8221; or maybe &#8220;first order analysis&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/comment-page-1/#comment-1191729</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34597#comment-1191729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You see this kind of confusion about &quot;rationality&quot; a lot. On the one hand there&#039;s rationality-rationality, which is just a combination of logical self-consistency and applying the best known means to reach your given ends (which could be anything). Then there&#039;s what I like to call &quot;Spock rationality&quot; which seems to be what a lot of people actually think of when they hear the word, and makes lots of assumptions about certain core axioms being &quot;rational&quot; or not. 

Of course, that&#039;s nonsense on stilts. It&#039;s mostly just assuming a certain ethical framework and then calling everyone outside it &quot;irrational.&quot; In this case, because honor is outside the assumed moral framework it is contrasted with &quot;rationality.&quot;

Now I&#039;ve gone and used up my whole yearly allotment of scare quotes...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You see this kind of confusion about &#8220;rationality&#8221; a lot. On the one hand there&#8217;s rationality-rationality, which is just a combination of logical self-consistency and applying the best known means to reach your given ends (which could be anything). Then there&#8217;s what I like to call &#8220;Spock rationality&#8221; which seems to be what a lot of people actually think of when they hear the word, and makes lots of assumptions about certain core axioms being &#8220;rational&#8221; or not. </p>
<p>Of course, that&#8217;s nonsense on stilts. It&#8217;s mostly just assuming a certain ethical framework and then calling everyone outside it &#8220;irrational.&#8221; In this case, because honor is outside the assumed moral framework it is contrasted with &#8220;rationality.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ve gone and used up my whole yearly allotment of scare quotes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/comment-page-1/#comment-1191572</link>
		<dc:creator>Alrenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2014 10:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34597#comment-1191572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This shit drives me nuts.

&lt;blockquote&gt;So we end up in a coevolutionary arms race in which everybody becomes increasingly tough. The end result is a spiral of violence in which all parties run a high risk of extermination.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s an epic leap of faith right there. As per Scipio, evidence is for chumps. 

&quot;Man incompetent at rationality condemns rationality. Full story at 11.&quot; 

See also: evolution != rational. Err, what?

See also: honour, which we can work as necessary through game theory, is irrational. Err, what?

Question: in Turchin&#039;s mind, is rationality the incompetent mess he thinks it is, or is he portraying it as incompetent so he can condemn the self-identified rationalists for tribal warfare purposes?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This shit drives me nuts.</p>
<blockquote><p>So we end up in a coevolutionary arms race in which everybody becomes increasingly tough. The end result is a spiral of violence in which all parties run a high risk of extermination.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s an epic leap of faith right there. As per Scipio, evidence is for chumps. </p>
<p>&#8220;Man incompetent at rationality condemns rationality. Full story at 11.&#8221; </p>
<p>See also: evolution != rational. Err, what?</p>
<p>See also: honour, which we can work as necessary through game theory, is irrational. Err, what?</p>
<p>Question: in Turchin&#8217;s mind, is rationality the incompetent mess he thinks it is, or is he portraying it as incompetent so he can condemn the self-identified rationalists for tribal warfare purposes?</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Ngai</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/comment-page-1/#comment-1190724</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Ngai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2014 19:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34597#comment-1190724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The alternative is that the rustlers decide to become herdsmen. And this could be a self-feeding cycle: as the number of rustlers dwindles, it&#039;s safer to be a herdsman. However, it&#039;s important for the herdsmen to maintain a reputation for toughness or rustlers will come back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The alternative is that the rustlers decide to become herdsmen. And this could be a self-feeding cycle: as the number of rustlers dwindles, it&#8217;s safer to be a herdsman. However, it&#8217;s important for the herdsmen to maintain a reputation for toughness or rustlers will come back.</p>
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		<title>By: Scipio Americanus</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/why-national-honour-trumps-rationality/comment-page-1/#comment-1190301</link>
		<dc:creator>Scipio Americanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2014 12:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34597#comment-1190301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The end result is a spiral of violence in which all parties run a high risk of extermination.&quot;

Except where do we see this actually occur? In reality, when the rustlers become sufficiently violent and competent, the herdsmen form a militia to defend their livestock. At the end of the day, it&#039;s they who usually have the long term advantage by virtue of the ability to organize more easily. I also wonder about the more basic predator-prey dynamics of the situation that will tend to keep it from going to catastrophe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The end result is a spiral of violence in which all parties run a high risk of extermination.&#8221;</p>
<p>Except where do we see this actually occur? In reality, when the rustlers become sufficiently violent and competent, the herdsmen form a militia to defend their livestock. At the end of the day, it&#8217;s they who usually have the long term advantage by virtue of the ability to organize more easily. I also wonder about the more basic predator-prey dynamics of the situation that will tend to keep it from going to catastrophe.</p>
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