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	<title>Comments on: Manual for Civilization</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1209685</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2014 09:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1209685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with T.Greer above.  We have a recent example of an economy established from &quot;nothing&quot; in Taiwan.

When the Nationalists fled China their focus for the new economy was light industry and agriculture.  Got to eat, got to build things.  Survival depends on these two things since it allows you to move on to most any other area.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with T.Greer above.  We have a recent example of an economy established from &#8220;nothing&#8221; in Taiwan.</p>
<p>When the Nationalists fled China their focus for the new economy was light industry and agriculture.  Got to eat, got to build things.  Survival depends on these two things since it allows you to move on to most any other area.</p>
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		<title>By: Bongstar420</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1206495</link>
		<dc:creator>Bongstar420</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2014 22:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Ironically, if Empiricism and Naturalism are not maintained, the Manual of Civilization will have little use, since no one would understand how to understand and the knowledge would degenerate into a religion. These are philosophies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, if Empiricism and Naturalism are not maintained, the Manual of Civilization will have little use, since no one would understand how to understand and the knowledge would degenerate into a religion. These are philosophies.</p>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1206321</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1206321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kelly, Brand, and Eno are all old Global Business Network folks from the 90s. 

I was going to have a rant about how these folk are kinda like the B-Ark, but I started reading the comment thread on the &quot;evolved&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.longnow.org/02014/02/06/manual-for-civilization-begins/&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; above and now I&#039;m laughing too much to get grumpy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelly, Brand, and Eno are all old Global Business Network folks from the 90s. </p>
<p>I was going to have a rant about how these folk are kinda like the B-Ark, but I started reading the comment thread on the &#8220;evolved&#8221; <a href="http://blog.longnow.org/02014/02/06/manual-for-civilization-begins/">link</a> above and now I&#8217;m laughing too much to get grumpy.</p>
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		<title>By: Grasspunk</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1206314</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasspunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1206314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lot of that has done before by people that are more practical, e.g. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cd3wd.com/CD3WD_40/CD3WD/index.htm&quot;&gt;cd3wd&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of that has done before by people that are more practical, e.g. <a href="http://www.cd3wd.com/CD3WD_40/CD3WD/index.htm">cd3wd</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: William Newman</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1206091</link>
		<dc:creator>William Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2014 13:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1206091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;For this list to be properly made one must ask experts in the following fields to contribute (in approx. order of importance)&quot;

I think it depends on what timescale you&#039;re thinking of. Your list makes a fair amount of sense if your goal is minimizing the badness of the first 5-15 years after some catastrophe that hammers civilization back to bare subsistence. But if you have a longer-term view, general technical knowledge that&#039;s upstream from a lot of technology --- mathematics and fundamental results in physics and some kinds of chemistry and biology --- deserves to be high on the list. It is subtle enough that it took hundreds of years to figure out, and it&#039;s a significant force multiplier for lots of the other stuff on the list, and in a sense it&#039;s not that complicated. It *is* complicated in that few people get their mind around it in less than 5 years, so it&#039;s not something you will look up to solve problems in the first hard winter. But it&#039;s uncomplicated in the sense that by the time you devote one three-foot bookshelf to it you might already be into diminishing returns, unlike applied things like medicine and agronomy where without an entire room of bookshelves you have to make worrying compromises. (Do you really want to leave out the 3-big-volume set on tropical diseases of pigs? And then what about applied genetics of soybeans?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For this list to be properly made one must ask experts in the following fields to contribute (in approx. order of importance)&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it depends on what timescale you&#8217;re thinking of. Your list makes a fair amount of sense if your goal is minimizing the badness of the first 5-15 years after some catastrophe that hammers civilization back to bare subsistence. But if you have a longer-term view, general technical knowledge that&#8217;s upstream from a lot of technology &#8212; mathematics and fundamental results in physics and some kinds of chemistry and biology &#8212; deserves to be high on the list. It is subtle enough that it took hundreds of years to figure out, and it&#8217;s a significant force multiplier for lots of the other stuff on the list, and in a sense it&#8217;s not that complicated. It *is* complicated in that few people get their mind around it in less than 5 years, so it&#8217;s not something you will look up to solve problems in the first hard winter. But it&#8217;s uncomplicated in the sense that by the time you devote one three-foot bookshelf to it you might already be into diminishing returns, unlike applied things like medicine and agronomy where without an entire room of bookshelves you have to make worrying compromises. (Do you really want to leave out the 3-big-volume set on tropical diseases of pigs? And then what about applied genetics of soybeans?)</p>
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		<title>By: T. Greer</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1205828</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Greer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1205828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The trouble with these lists is that they were composed by public intellectuals and literary figures, not actual experts in... well, anything really. Creativity alone does not a civilization make. For this list to be properly made one must ask experts in the following fields to contribute (in approx. order of importance): 

&lt;ul&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Agronomy&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Medicine, surgery, anatomy, and emergency care&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Construction&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Mechanical and civil engineering&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Energetics and electrical engineering&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Materials Science&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Nautical Science&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Navigation, cartography, and GIS&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Archaeology&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Ballistics&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Linguistics&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Genetics and epidemiology&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Computer science and computational mathematics&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Psychology and logic&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;Economics&lt;/li&gt;
    &lt;li&gt;History&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;



I would be very interested in reading what gets on such a list. Pity it won&#039;t be compiled.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trouble with these lists is that they were composed by public intellectuals and literary figures, not actual experts in&#8230; well, anything really. Creativity alone does not a civilization make. For this list to be properly made one must ask experts in the following fields to contribute (in approx. order of importance): </p>
<ul>
<li>Agronomy</li>
<li>Medicine, surgery, anatomy, and emergency care</li>
<li>Construction</li>
<li>Mechanical and civil engineering</li>
<li>Energetics and electrical engineering</li>
<li>Materials Science</li>
<li>Nautical Science</li>
<li>Navigation, cartography, and GIS</li>
<li>Archaeology</li>
<li>Ballistics</li>
<li>Linguistics</li>
<li>Genetics and epidemiology</li>
<li>Computer science and computational mathematics</li>
<li>Psychology and logic</li>
<li>Economics</li>
<li>History</li>
</ul>
<p>I would be very interested in reading what gets on such a list. Pity it won&#8217;t be compiled.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Pisco</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1204036</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Pisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1204036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Faze,

Which albums? &quot;Here Come the Warm Jets&quot; and &quot;Taking Tiger Mountain By Strategy&quot; are favorites of mine. After that, yes, there&#039;s creative exhaustion punctuated by a song or two here and there (&quot;Blackwater&quot;, &quot;Everything Merges with the Night&quot;) and the &quot;My Life in the Bush of Ghosts&quot; lp with Byrne. He apparently had a lot of creative input on &quot;Remain in Light&quot;, by some accounts.

The 1990 &quot;Wrong Way Up&quot; album with John Cale is nice, but not great.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faze,</p>
<p>Which albums? &#8220;Here Come the Warm Jets&#8221; and &#8220;Taking Tiger Mountain By Strategy&#8221; are favorites of mine. After that, yes, there&#8217;s creative exhaustion punctuated by a song or two here and there (&#8220;Blackwater&#8221;, &#8220;Everything Merges with the Night&#8221;) and the &#8220;My Life in the Bush of Ghosts&#8221; lp with Byrne. He apparently had a lot of creative input on &#8220;Remain in Light&#8221;, by some accounts.</p>
<p>The 1990 &#8220;Wrong Way Up&#8221; album with John Cale is nice, but not great.</p>
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		<title>By: Faze</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1204003</link>
		<dc:creator>Faze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1204003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is amazing how Brian Eno got to be someone asked to opine on &quot;intellectual&quot; topics. I recently downloaded a couple of his albums to find out what the big deal is. The music is bland, soulless, and makes Pat Boone singing Little Richard songs sound like Little Richard singing little Richard songs. Brian Eno&#039;s music isn&#039;t entertaining on any level. He&#039;s doesn&#039;t even have the handful of good songs that that other &quot;intellectual&quot; musician, David Byrne, was able to muster up before he retired to a life of pretentious punditry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is amazing how Brian Eno got to be someone asked to opine on &#8220;intellectual&#8221; topics. I recently downloaded a couple of his albums to find out what the big deal is. The music is bland, soulless, and makes Pat Boone singing Little Richard songs sound like Little Richard singing little Richard songs. Brian Eno&#8217;s music isn&#8217;t entertaining on any level. He&#8217;s doesn&#8217;t even have the handful of good songs that that other &#8220;intellectual&#8221; musician, David Byrne, was able to muster up before he retired to a life of pretentious punditry.</p>
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		<title>By: Toddy Cat</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1203671</link>
		<dc:creator>Toddy Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1203671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who&#039;s Brian Eno?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s Brian Eno?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marc Pisco</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2014/04/manual-for-civilization-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1203640</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Pisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=34635#comment-1203640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eno asked himself, &quot;If I lived in a desolate future world without airports, where would I find beach reading that wouldn&#039;t make me look crass?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eno asked himself, &#8220;If I lived in a desolate future world without airports, where would I find beach reading that wouldn&#8217;t make me look crass?&#8221;</p>
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