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	<title>Comments on: Transcendental Leapfrogging</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-484751</link>
		<dc:creator>Alrenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-484751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At the risk of sounding insufferably arrogant...

It is philosophy, real philosophy, which says, &quot;Well, if leapfrogging worked out, why not try it again?&quot; 

And we find that whether people are idiots depends on what, exactly, you care about. They may be idiots at doing formal science. This is roughly true. They&#039;re not idiots at doing the stuff &lt;em&gt;they&lt;/em&gt; care about. 

You don&#039;t actually have to be taught Bayes&#039; theorem. Most of the belief systems already work using exactly it. (They did studies, I may be able to dredge them up.) It&#039;s just the &lt;em&gt;professed&lt;/em&gt; beliefs that sometimes wildly deviate from Bayesian calculations. 

Or, people buying lotto tickets know they&#039;re not going to win. They&#039;re not looking for positive financial expected value, or else they&#039;d give up after a few tries. They&#039;re buying hope, or a rush, or some other non-financial good. 

People addicted to the one-armed bandit know it isn&#039;t good for their wallet. They could at any time just compare today&#039;s bank balance to the one a couple months ago. They carefully avoid doing that, which implies they already know it would challenge their rationalizations. 

You know what&#039;s idiotic? Blanket statements about who is an idiot. You know what&#039;s insane? Blanket statements about who is insane. 

Philosophy, real philosophy, also asks, &quot;Well, leapfrogging worked. But under what conditions won&#039;t it work? What specifically lead to its success in this case?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of sounding insufferably arrogant&#8230;</p>
<p>It is philosophy, real philosophy, which says, &#8220;Well, if leapfrogging worked out, why not try it again?&#8221; </p>
<p>And we find that whether people are idiots depends on what, exactly, you care about. They may be idiots at doing formal science. This is roughly true. They&#8217;re not idiots at doing the stuff <em>they</em> care about. </p>
<p>You don&#8217;t actually have to be taught Bayes&#8217; theorem. Most of the belief systems already work using exactly it. (They did studies, I may be able to dredge them up.) It&#8217;s just the <em>professed</em> beliefs that sometimes wildly deviate from Bayesian calculations. </p>
<p>Or, people buying lotto tickets know they&#8217;re not going to win. They&#8217;re not looking for positive financial expected value, or else they&#8217;d give up after a few tries. They&#8217;re buying hope, or a rush, or some other non-financial good. </p>
<p>People addicted to the one-armed bandit know it isn&#8217;t good for their wallet. They could at any time just compare today&#8217;s bank balance to the one a couple months ago. They carefully avoid doing that, which implies they already know it would challenge their rationalizations. </p>
<p>You know what&#8217;s idiotic? Blanket statements about who is an idiot. You know what&#8217;s insane? Blanket statements about who is insane. </p>
<p>Philosophy, real philosophy, also asks, &#8220;Well, leapfrogging worked. But under what conditions won&#8217;t it work? What specifically lead to its success in this case?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James James</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-484731</link>
		<dc:creator>James James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-484731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Science is not obvious. Everyone is born a non-scientist (i.e. a kind of animist). 

It is science which leapfrogs the obvious, claiming to have seen-through the obvious, regarding virtually all humans pre-1700 and at least three-quarters of humans alive today, as credulous idiots, deluded nut-cases or manipulative hypocrites. 

Well, that&#039;s a strong way of putting it, but I don&#039;t see what&#039;s wrong with saying that three-quarters of humans alive today are wrong. For example, the scientific method does indeed leapfrog obvious ways of thinking. You have to be taught Bayes&#039; theorem, how to spot quacks, etc. 

I am an atheist (please no accusations of &quot;scientism&quot;), and before I encountered reactionary thought and the reactionosphere (starting with Moldbug), I was an enthusiastic reader of RichardDawkins.net and Ben Goldacre&#039;s &quot;Bad Science&quot;: the skeptic community. Now, perhaps coincidentally, I find it boring, but I still agree with it: they&#039;re still basically right. I have never been a Leftist/liberal, but I can see that being a skeptic is a much like being a leftist, applied to a different domain. They certainly love signalling to each other how great they are. But they&#039;re still basically right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science is not obvious. Everyone is born a non-scientist (i.e. a kind of animist). </p>
<p>It is science which leapfrogs the obvious, claiming to have seen-through the obvious, regarding virtually all humans pre-1700 and at least three-quarters of humans alive today, as credulous idiots, deluded nut-cases or manipulative hypocrites. </p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s a strong way of putting it, but I don&#8217;t see what&#8217;s wrong with saying that three-quarters of humans alive today are wrong. For example, the scientific method does indeed leapfrog obvious ways of thinking. You have to be taught Bayes&#8217; theorem, how to spot quacks, etc. </p>
<p>I am an atheist (please no accusations of &#8220;scientism&#8221;), and before I encountered reactionary thought and the reactionosphere (starting with Moldbug), I was an enthusiastic reader of RichardDawkins.net and Ben Goldacre&#8217;s &#8220;Bad Science&#8221;: the skeptic community. Now, perhaps coincidentally, I find it boring, but I still agree with it: they&#8217;re still basically right. I have never been a Leftist/liberal, but I can see that being a skeptic is a much like being a leftist, applied to a different domain. They certainly love signalling to each other how great they are. But they&#8217;re still basically right.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Charlton</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-484717</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Charlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-484717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Theism is obvious, everyone is born a theist (i.e. a kind of &#039;animist&#039;). 

It is atheism which leapfrogs the obvious, claiming to have seen-through the obvious, regarding virtually all humans pre-1700 and at least three-quarters of humans alive today, as credulous idiots, deluded nut-cases or manipulative hypocrites. 

(I was an atheist myself until recently, and I know what it feels like. Much like being a Leftist/ liberal - albeit applied to a different domain.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theism is obvious, everyone is born a theist (i.e. a kind of &#8216;animist&#8217;). </p>
<p>It is atheism which leapfrogs the obvious, claiming to have seen-through the obvious, regarding virtually all humans pre-1700 and at least three-quarters of humans alive today, as credulous idiots, deluded nut-cases or manipulative hypocrites. </p>
<p>(I was an atheist myself until recently, and I know what it feels like. Much like being a Leftist/ liberal &#8211; albeit applied to a different domain.)</p>
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		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-484227</link>
		<dc:creator>Alrenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 04:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-484227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Odd. I agree with people. I must be sick or something. :P

Still, with Charlton&#039;s obvious ulterior motive dealt with, leapfrogging seems like its a handy word and concept.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Odd. I agree with people. I must be sick or something. :P</p>
<p>Still, with Charlton&#8217;s obvious ulterior motive dealt with, leapfrogging seems like its a handy word and concept.</p>
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		<title>By: Faze</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-484017</link>
		<dc:creator>Faze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-484017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dishonest and self-serving ideologues of both the right and left &quot;leapfrog&quot;.  That&#039;s almost the definition of serving an ideology rather than reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dishonest and self-serving ideologues of both the right and left &#8220;leapfrog&#8221;.  That&#8217;s almost the definition of serving an ideology rather than reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwern</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-483952</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-483952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and I missed the best example: his Christianity. It&#039;s particularly hilarious to see him criticizing Communism for ignoring present evils for a future good, when that&#039;s all that the theodicy is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I missed the best example: his Christianity. It&#8217;s particularly hilarious to see him criticizing Communism for ignoring present evils for a future good, when that&#8217;s all that the theodicy is.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwern</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2012/04/transcendental-leapfrogging/comment-page-1/#comment-483948</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=28742#comment-483948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Classic Charlton &#8212; it&#039;s bad when my enemies do it for something I dislike, but it&#039;s good when I do it!

The &quot;transcendental leapfrog&quot; is also what makes anyone give credence to such distant abstractions as... statistics. And the rest of modern science.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classic Charlton &mdash; it&#8217;s bad when my enemies do it for something I dislike, but it&#8217;s good when I do it!</p>
<p>The &#8220;transcendental leapfrog&#8221; is also what makes anyone give credence to such distant abstractions as&#8230; statistics. And the rest of modern science.</p>
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