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	<title>Comments on: Project Orion</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Buckethead</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-394920</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-394920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, for me it would be an 8 million-ton Orion. I&#039;d go and set up a fortress of solitude on Saturn&#039;s moon Mimas, since it looks like the death star anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for me it would be an 8 million-ton Orion. I&#8217;d go and set up a fortress of solitude on Saturn&#8217;s moon Mimas, since it looks like the death star anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Fouche</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-394246</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Fouche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 22:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-394246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Makes you wonder what the minimum personal cache is for space propulsion systems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes you wonder what the minimum personal cache is for space propulsion systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Buckethead</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-394195</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 21:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-394195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure. But the fact that you can talk about getting a thrust-to-weight ratio of at least one puts you in the &quot;high thrust&quot; area. You could never use a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_thruster&quot;&gt;Hall effect thruster&lt;/a&gt; to take off from Earth.

Some proposed designs for pebble-bed reactors could conceivably better the thrust-to-weight ratio considerably, removing as they do the need for heavy reinforcing structure for the reactor core.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure. But the fact that you can talk about getting a thrust-to-weight ratio of at least one puts you in the &#8220;high thrust&#8221; area. You could never use a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_thruster">Hall effect thruster</a> to take off from Earth.</p>
<p>Some proposed designs for pebble-bed reactors could conceivably better the thrust-to-weight ratio considerably, removing as they do the need for heavy reinforcing structure for the reactor core.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-394154</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-394154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_thermal_rocket&quot;&gt;Nuclear thermal rockets&lt;/a&gt; appear to have twice the specific impulse of chemical rockets and one-tenth the thrust-to-weight ratio:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Using hydrogen propellant, a solid-core design typically delivers specific impulses (&lt;em&gt;Isp&lt;/em&gt;) on the order of 850 to 1000 seconds, about twice that of liquid hydrogen-oxygen designs such as the Space Shuttle Main Engine.
[...]
Immediately after World War II, the weight of a complete nuclear reactor was so great that it was feared that solid-core engines would be hard-pressed to achieve a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1:1, which would be needed to overcome the gravity of the Earth on launch. The problem was quickly overcome, however, and over the next twenty-five years U.S. nuclear thermal rocket designs eventually reached thrust-to-weight ratios of approximately 7:1. Still, the lower thrust-to-weight ratio of nuclear thermal rockets versus chemical rockets (which have thrust-to-weight ratios of 70:1) and the large tanks necessary for liquid hydrogen storage mean that solid-core engines are best used in upper stages where vehicle velocity is already near orbital, in space &quot;tugs&quot; used to take payloads between gravity wells, or in launches from a lower gravity planet, moon or minor planet where the required thrust is lower. To be a useful Earth launch engine, the system would have to be either much lighter, or provide even higher specific impulse. The true strength of nuclear rockets currently lies in solar system exploration, outside Earth&#039;s gravity well.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_thermal_rocket">Nuclear thermal rockets</a> appear to have twice the specific impulse of chemical rockets and one-tenth the thrust-to-weight ratio:</p>
<blockquote><p>Using hydrogen propellant, a solid-core design typically delivers specific impulses (<em>Isp</em>) on the order of 850 to 1000 seconds, about twice that of liquid hydrogen-oxygen designs such as the Space Shuttle Main Engine.<br />
[...]<br />
Immediately after World War II, the weight of a complete nuclear reactor was so great that it was feared that solid-core engines would be hard-pressed to achieve a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1:1, which would be needed to overcome the gravity of the Earth on launch. The problem was quickly overcome, however, and over the next twenty-five years U.S. nuclear thermal rocket designs eventually reached thrust-to-weight ratios of approximately 7:1. Still, the lower thrust-to-weight ratio of nuclear thermal rockets versus chemical rockets (which have thrust-to-weight ratios of 70:1) and the large tanks necessary for liquid hydrogen storage mean that solid-core engines are best used in upper stages where vehicle velocity is already near orbital, in space &#8220;tugs&#8221; used to take payloads between gravity wells, or in launches from a lower gravity planet, moon or minor planet where the required thrust is lower. To be a useful Earth launch engine, the system would have to be either much lighter, or provide even higher specific impulse. The true strength of nuclear rockets currently lies in solar system exploration, outside Earth&#8217;s gravity well.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Buckethead</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-393348</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 22:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-393348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isegoria, NERVA rockets aren&#039;t typically classed as low thrust &#8212; they can achieve thrust in the same ballpark as a chemical rocket. They are more efficient than chemical rockets at maybe 1000 Isp, but no where near the 10,000 Isp of even a minimal Orion design, or the 20,000 Isp (potentially) of a VASIMR thruster. The VASIMR, like all plasma thrusters, has very low thrust.

Of all the types of propulsion we could use right now, without waiting for physics breakthroughs, Orion is unique in offering much higher thrust &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; much higher efficiency. And it is more efficient the bigger you make it up to millions of tons of payload.

Maybe others can&#039;t see a reason for an 8 million ton reference Orion design capable of taking hundreds of people to Saturn in a couple months. But I think that really is a failure of imagination on their part.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isegoria, NERVA rockets aren&#8217;t typically classed as low thrust &mdash; they can achieve thrust in the same ballpark as a chemical rocket. They are more efficient than chemical rockets at maybe 1000 Isp, but no where near the 10,000 Isp of even a minimal Orion design, or the 20,000 Isp (potentially) of a VASIMR thruster. The VASIMR, like all plasma thrusters, has very low thrust.</p>
<p>Of all the types of propulsion we could use right now, without waiting for physics breakthroughs, Orion is unique in offering much higher thrust <em>and</em> much higher efficiency. And it is more efficient the bigger you make it up to millions of tons of payload.</p>
<p>Maybe others can&#8217;t see a reason for an 8 million ton reference Orion design capable of taking hundreds of people to Saturn in a couple months. But I think that really is a failure of imagination on their part.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-393086</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 15:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-393086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The chief advantage of Orion is that you can launch a &lt;em&gt;massive&lt;/em&gt; vehicle into space and really &lt;em&gt;rocket&lt;/em&gt; around the solar system, like a sci-fi rocket ship, not a floating tin can.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA&quot;&gt;NERVA&lt;/a&gt; engines are efficient but offer low thrust.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The chief advantage of Orion is that you can launch a <em>massive</em> vehicle into space and really <em>rocket</em> around the solar system, like a sci-fi rocket ship, not a floating tin can.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA">NERVA</a> engines are efficient but offer low thrust.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-393084</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 15:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-393084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Project Orion was still being considered, in the 1940s and &#039;50s, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse&quot;&gt;EMP&lt;/a&gt; was understood to be a local phenomenon.  It was 1962&#039;s Starfish Prime test, at high altitude, that caused a much larger EMP than expected, through what is now called the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_effect&quot;&gt;Compton Effect&lt;/a&gt;.

Anyway, &lt;em&gt;fallout&lt;/em&gt; was the chief concern at the time, but EMP is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)#Potential_problems&quot;&gt;recognized problem&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The launch of such an Orion nuclear bomb rocket from the ground or from low Earth orbit would generate an electromagnetic pulse that could cause significant damage to computers and satellites, as well as flooding the van Allen belts with high-energy radiation. This problem might be solved by launching from very remote areas, because the EMP footprint would be only a few hundred miles wide. The Earth is well shielded by the Van Allen belts. In addition, a few relatively small space-based electrodynamic tethers could be deployed to quickly eject the energetic particles from the capture angles of the Van Allen belts.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Project Orion was still being considered, in the 1940s and &#8217;50s, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse">EMP</a> was understood to be a local phenomenon.  It was 1962&#8242;s Starfish Prime test, at high altitude, that caused a much larger EMP than expected, through what is now called the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_effect">Compton Effect</a>.</p>
<p>Anyway, <em>fallout</em> was the chief concern at the time, but EMP is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)#Potential_problems">recognized problem</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The launch of such an Orion nuclear bomb rocket from the ground or from low Earth orbit would generate an electromagnetic pulse that could cause significant damage to computers and satellites, as well as flooding the van Allen belts with high-energy radiation. This problem might be solved by launching from very remote areas, because the EMP footprint would be only a few hundred miles wide. The Earth is well shielded by the Van Allen belts. In addition, a few relatively small space-based electrodynamic tethers could be deployed to quickly eject the energetic particles from the capture angles of the Van Allen belts.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Ham Sandwich</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-392677</link>
		<dc:creator>Ham Sandwich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 06:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-392677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder what use Orion would really be.  It is really the only hope for interstellar travel, but it would take so long to get there and back that any interstellar trip would leave the closed loop of human life in our solar system and effectively never return.

And for trips around the solar system (at least to and from anyplace potentially useful) wouldn&#039;t NERVA engines work well enough and be much cheaper to operate?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what use Orion would really be.  It is really the only hope for interstellar travel, but it would take so long to get there and back that any interstellar trip would leave the closed loop of human life in our solar system and effectively never return.</p>
<p>And for trips around the solar system (at least to and from anyplace potentially useful) wouldn&#8217;t NERVA engines work well enough and be much cheaper to operate?</p>
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		<title>By: Cygnus Darkstar</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-392539</link>
		<dc:creator>Cygnus Darkstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 03:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-392539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That isn&#039;t a problem, as the Compton scattering that produces EMP can only occur inside an atmosphere. The effects of EMP are ridiculously overblown in the popular conception anyway; conditions have to be just right for it to be dangerous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That isn&#8217;t a problem, as the Compton scattering that produces EMP can only occur inside an atmosphere. The effects of EMP are ridiculously overblown in the popular conception anyway; conditions have to be just right for it to be dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: Borepatch</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/project-orion/comment-page-1/#comment-392340</link>
		<dc:creator>Borepatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=27387#comment-392340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What happens when it wants to leave Earth orbit, and the bombs cause repeated Electromagnetic Pulse events?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens when it wants to leave Earth orbit, and the bombs cause repeated Electromagnetic Pulse events?</p>
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