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	<title>Comments on: Heavy Armor Gave Knights a Workout</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Joseph Fouche</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-317380</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Fouche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 22:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-317380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Must be a market incentive problem. We have plenty of eunuch politicians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Must be a market incentive problem. We have plenty of eunuch politicians.</p>
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		<title>By: Buckethead</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-317246</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 19:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-317246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not too late to start getting one ready.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not too late to start getting one ready.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-317077</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-317077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We haven&#039;t had a good eunuch general in a while.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We haven&#8217;t had a good eunuch general in a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Fouche</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-313001</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Fouche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 20:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-313001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Roman eunuch general Narses successfully cracked the code of beating calvary at the battle of Taginae against the Ostrogoths in July 552. It was forgotten in the West until the Scottish victory over the English at  Stirling Bridge in 1297 and the Flemish victory over the French in the Battle of the Golden Spurs in 1302.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Roman eunuch general Narses successfully cracked the code of beating calvary at the battle of Taginae against the Ostrogoths in July 552. It was forgotten in the West until the Scottish victory over the English at  Stirling Bridge in 1297 and the Flemish victory over the French in the Battle of the Golden Spurs in 1302.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-312815</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-312815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure why you would think late-medieval plate armor was overdone and ineffective.  From what I&#039;ve seen, it was &lt;em&gt;less&lt;/em&gt; encumbering than earlier styles of armor, like chain mail, and offered better protection. Articulated plates allow &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; freedom of movement than flexible chain mail, and the weight is better distributed across the body; it doesn&#039;t all hang off the shoulders and tightened belt.  Also, I don&#039;t believe that earlier forms of armor were necessarily lighter than late-medieval plate armor, unless we&#039;re comparing a partial suit (like Roman &lt;em&gt;lorica segmentata&lt;/em&gt;) to a full suit.

I fully agree that medieval armor was meant to be impressive &#8212; but so was ancient Greek and Roman armor.  Everyone likes shiny metal and tall plumed helmets.

Lastly, the Romans did not have a great track record against cavalry, and they obviously had never had to deal with the shock of a lance charge from late-medieval heavy cavalry with stirrups.  They had all kinds of &lt;em&gt;strategic&lt;/em&gt; advantages &#8212; large numbers of professional troops, experienced generals and centurions, siege engineers, etc. &#8212; but their heavy infantry might find itself mauled by a first encounter with mounted knights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure why you would think late-medieval plate armor was overdone and ineffective.  From what I&#8217;ve seen, it was <em>less</em> encumbering than earlier styles of armor, like chain mail, and offered better protection. Articulated plates allow <em>more</em> freedom of movement than flexible chain mail, and the weight is better distributed across the body; it doesn&#8217;t all hang off the shoulders and tightened belt.  Also, I don&#8217;t believe that earlier forms of armor were necessarily lighter than late-medieval plate armor, unless we&#8217;re comparing a partial suit (like Roman <em>lorica segmentata</em>) to a full suit.</p>
<p>I fully agree that medieval armor was meant to be impressive &mdash; but so was ancient Greek and Roman armor.  Everyone likes shiny metal and tall plumed helmets.</p>
<p>Lastly, the Romans did not have a great track record against cavalry, and they obviously had never had to deal with the shock of a lance charge from late-medieval heavy cavalry with stirrups.  They had all kinds of <em>strategic</em> advantages &mdash; large numbers of professional troops, experienced generals and centurions, siege engineers, etc. &mdash; but their heavy infantry might find itself mauled by a first encounter with mounted knights.</p>
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		<title>By: Goober</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-312406</link>
		<dc:creator>Goober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 21:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-312406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The funny thing about medieval armor (or at least the armor shown here) was that to me at least, it seemed very overdone and not very effective.  I&#039;m not saying that I am an expert, but it seems to me that lamellar armor, the much lighter, cheaper, and more flexible armor favored in times past, fell out of style more than it fell out of usefulness.  I think that a lot of medieval armor was all about bling &#8212; and the psychological aspect of going up against a steel-encrusted foe in battle.  

Not that the armor of the ancient Greeks was without criticism, but it seems to me that at least when it comes to the lamellar breastplates, they had the medieval folks beat.

I am still of the opinion that the armaments of the Roman legions, with large interlocking shield walls, lamellar breastplates, metal shoulder and arm protection, helmet that protected the face and neck to a certain extent, javelins that could be thrown but not thrown back, and short swords made for thrusting up front, and long spears in the ranks behind, was pretty darned good for an infantry unit.  The guys with the big, long medieval swords might have had an advantage in single combat, but the Romans didn&#039;t typically fight in single combat.  I would argue that a bunch of medieval knights fighting in their typical manner (in force but not necessarily as a unit) wouldn&#039;t stand a chance against a Roman centurion and his men, even mounted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funny thing about medieval armor (or at least the armor shown here) was that to me at least, it seemed very overdone and not very effective.  I&#8217;m not saying that I am an expert, but it seems to me that lamellar armor, the much lighter, cheaper, and more flexible armor favored in times past, fell out of style more than it fell out of usefulness.  I think that a lot of medieval armor was all about bling &mdash; and the psychological aspect of going up against a steel-encrusted foe in battle.  </p>
<p>Not that the armor of the ancient Greeks was without criticism, but it seems to me that at least when it comes to the lamellar breastplates, they had the medieval folks beat.</p>
<p>I am still of the opinion that the armaments of the Roman legions, with large interlocking shield walls, lamellar breastplates, metal shoulder and arm protection, helmet that protected the face and neck to a certain extent, javelins that could be thrown but not thrown back, and short swords made for thrusting up front, and long spears in the ranks behind, was pretty darned good for an infantry unit.  The guys with the big, long medieval swords might have had an advantage in single combat, but the Romans didn&#8217;t typically fight in single combat.  I would argue that a bunch of medieval knights fighting in their typical manner (in force but not necessarily as a unit) wouldn&#8217;t stand a chance against a Roman centurion and his men, even mounted.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-308511</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 03:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-308511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t see any reference to the armor being ceremonial, and it certainly doesn&#039;t appear to be the extra-heavy specialized jousting armor that led to all the myths about medieval armor being so heavy that a knight needed a crane to climb into the saddle, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see any reference to the armor being ceremonial, and it certainly doesn&#8217;t appear to be the extra-heavy specialized jousting armor that led to all the myths about medieval armor being so heavy that a knight needed a crane to climb into the saddle, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-a-workout/comment-page-1/#comment-308315</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=25751#comment-308315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The test was run using ceremonial armor.  Combat armor for horsemen would weigh less.  Foot soldier armor would weigh even less.  The researchers should have contacted a historian, or even an SCA enthusiast, before running this test.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The test was run using ceremonial armor.  Combat armor for horsemen would weigh less.  Foot soldier armor would weigh even less.  The researchers should have contacted a historian, or even an SCA enthusiast, before running this test.</p>
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