<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Drums That Talk</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 21 May 2026 16:19:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.6.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-140933</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=24042#comment-140933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect that Dyson isn&#039;t confused; he&#039;s simply summarizing a popular science book for a lay audience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that Dyson isn&#8217;t confused; he&#8217;s simply summarizing a popular science book for a lay audience.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-140932</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=24042#comment-140932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the pointer, Kalim.  I&#039;m more than a few episodes behind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the pointer, Kalim.  I&#8217;m more than a few episodes behind.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-140851</link>
		<dc:creator>Alrenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=24042#comment-140851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dyson&#039;s confusing the physicist&#039;s definition of information with regular information. 

I = ln(S). It&#039;s a useful quantity for signal processing, but has no bearing on human-meaningful information. 

He also seems to have overlooked the fact that languages themselves are systems of code.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dyson&#8217;s confusing the physicist&#8217;s definition of information with regular information. </p>
<p>I = ln(S). It&#8217;s a useful quantity for signal processing, but has no bearing on human-meaningful information. </p>
<p>He also seems to have overlooked the fact that languages themselves are systems of code.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kalim Kassam</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-140746</link>
		<dc:creator>Kalim Kassam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=24042#comment-140746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dyson was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/03/dyson_on_heresy.html&quot;&gt;last week&#039;s interviewee&lt;/a&gt; on Russ Roberts&#039; EconTalk podcast. A major topic was &quot;challenging the scientific dogmas of the day.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dyson was <a href="http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/03/dyson_on_heresy.html">last week&#8217;s interviewee</a> on Russ Roberts&#8217; EconTalk podcast. A major topic was &#8220;challenging the scientific dogmas of the day.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-140369</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=24042#comment-140369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would not label the concept of information &lt;em&gt;nonsense&lt;/em&gt; simply because the decoder must understand the coding scheme.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not label the concept of information <em>nonsense</em> simply because the decoder must understand the coding scheme.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bruce G Charlton</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2011/03/drums-that-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-139570</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce G Charlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.isegoria.net/?p=24042#comment-139570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for bringing this Dyson piece to my attention.  I think I shall probably blog about it sometime. 

Freeman Dyson (an extremely ancient British physicist) is about the nearest we have to an old-fashioned genius, still alive. 

But Dyson is not a genius &#8212; rather a provider of scintillating partial clarifications and stimulating ideas. What has prevented him achieving genius-hood is a certain shallowness and smugness &#8212; he is just too pleasant and agreeable! 

About &#039;information&#039;: having worked in this field for about 8 years, not that long ago I concluded that the concept is fundamentally mistaken. 

(Much less than 1 percent of the population have any genuine understanding of the concept of information &#8212; and of these, their hold on understanding is tenuous; and I would hazard that Gleick is not one of this tiny elite. However, among those who understand, very few are able to recognize the incompleteness of the concept &#8212; all their attention and energies have been used up in understanding it.)

The concept of information proved to a pragmatically valuable for about 50 years &#8212; but it is in fact nonsense. 

There really is no such thing as information separable from meaning &#8212; the illusion that &#039;code&#039; is an independent reality is only possible by taking for granted the decoder.

There is only as much &#039;information&#039; as the deconder can understand &#8212; the meaning, the existence of information, is a product of the information reader. And the information itself is not truly dissociable from that reader; it is not a true abstraction.  

Read Dyson&#039;s article carefully, taking care not to be distracted by the arm-waving &#8212; it is nonsense, obviously so. 

The idea that we live in a world with billion-fold increases in the quantity of &#039;information&#039; &#8212; yet that we can get no meaning from it... Nonsense!

If we don&#039;t know the meaning, then it is not information!

This explains why the &#039;decoding&#039; of the human genome in terms of &#039;information&#039; has led to approximately nothing; and why Moore&#039;s &#039;law&#039; is compatible with a decline in computer perfomance. 

Information is one of those concepts which is pragmatically &#039;true&#039; so long as people don&#039;t take it seriously and don&#039;t push it too hard; but when people believe in information as an autonomous abstraction then it stands revealed as empty and question-begging (just like the related concept of &#039;complexity&#039;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for bringing this Dyson piece to my attention.  I think I shall probably blog about it sometime. </p>
<p>Freeman Dyson (an extremely ancient British physicist) is about the nearest we have to an old-fashioned genius, still alive. </p>
<p>But Dyson is not a genius &mdash; rather a provider of scintillating partial clarifications and stimulating ideas. What has prevented him achieving genius-hood is a certain shallowness and smugness &mdash; he is just too pleasant and agreeable! </p>
<p>About &#8216;information&#8217;: having worked in this field for about 8 years, not that long ago I concluded that the concept is fundamentally mistaken. </p>
<p>(Much less than 1 percent of the population have any genuine understanding of the concept of information &mdash; and of these, their hold on understanding is tenuous; and I would hazard that Gleick is not one of this tiny elite. However, among those who understand, very few are able to recognize the incompleteness of the concept &mdash; all their attention and energies have been used up in understanding it.)</p>
<p>The concept of information proved to a pragmatically valuable for about 50 years &mdash; but it is in fact nonsense. </p>
<p>There really is no such thing as information separable from meaning &mdash; the illusion that &#8216;code&#8217; is an independent reality is only possible by taking for granted the decoder.</p>
<p>There is only as much &#8216;information&#8217; as the deconder can understand &mdash; the meaning, the existence of information, is a product of the information reader. And the information itself is not truly dissociable from that reader; it is not a true abstraction.  </p>
<p>Read Dyson&#8217;s article carefully, taking care not to be distracted by the arm-waving &mdash; it is nonsense, obviously so. </p>
<p>The idea that we live in a world with billion-fold increases in the quantity of &#8216;information&#8217; &mdash; yet that we can get no meaning from it&#8230; Nonsense!</p>
<p>If we don&#8217;t know the meaning, then it is not information!</p>
<p>This explains why the &#8216;decoding&#8217; of the human genome in terms of &#8216;information&#8217; has led to approximately nothing; and why Moore&#8217;s &#8216;law&#8217; is compatible with a decline in computer perfomance. </p>
<p>Information is one of those concepts which is pragmatically &#8216;true&#8217; so long as people don&#8217;t take it seriously and don&#8217;t push it too hard; but when people believe in information as an autonomous abstraction then it stands revealed as empty and question-begging (just like the related concept of &#8216;complexity&#8217;).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
