Comments on: Ideas Behind Their Time

By: Isegoria

Isegoria — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 01:16:45 +0000

I don't think I'd say it all comes down to entrenched interests. If the Roman elite managed to get roads and aqueducts built, why would they resist wagon ways, stage coaches, etc. If, as land-owners, they found simple water mills helpful, why would they resist better water mills?

By: Aretae

Aretae — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 23:04:32 +0000

All comes down to established interests vs. newcomers. Larger/older areas prefer stuff that benefits existing power blocks. And Rome was large and old. And technology is fundamentally disruptive.

By: Buckethead

Buckethead — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:57:16 +0000

One SF story that has always fascinated me is "Roads not Taken" by Turtledove — where anti-gravity and FTL travel is really something simple, like the wheel. Humanity in its billions just missed it. So aliens with 17th-century tech invade LA with matchlocks — then realize the error of their mistake when they get mown down by machine guns.

By: Joseph Fouche

Joseph Fouche — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:22:03 +0000

Don’t forget the heavy plow that opened Northern Europe to more intensive farming, something which, if it had happened in the first century, might have made Germania worth conquering.

By: Isegoria

Isegoria — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:21:58 +0000

These time-traveler technologies also have applications after the decline and fall of a not-so-galactic republic — or before the rise to “developed” status in much of the world today.

By: Isegoria

Isegoria — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:19:11 +0000

It does seem odd, doesn't it, that the same civilization that built aqueducts and heated homes had less interest in technical innovations than its feudal successors? Anyway, it's not odd that those feudal successors would focus their R&D "dollars" on metallurgy — and castles and siege engines. I suppose it just took a while to develop useful lenses — and no one realized they'd lead to the discoveries of new planets and new lifeforms. One major class of innovation you're neglecting though is agricultural. As one commenter noted, with the new and improved wooden horse collar, which redirected force away from the horse's weak throat to its strong shoulders, a horse could do the work of 10 men while only eating as much as five — rather than doing the work of five while eating as much as five. This led to a rapid increase in productivity, enough to pop out of the Malthusian Trap for a few generations.

By: Isegoria

Isegoria — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:06:39 +0000

I haven't read Stronger than a Hundred Men, but that description matches my previous understanding of Roman waterwheels and Roman attitudes toward waterwheels. Reading the Wikipedia entry on watermills though reveals that the Romans were using overshot wheels and ship mills and using the mills not just to grind grain but to power saws, hammers, and maybe bellows. This was all news to me.

By: Winchell Chung

Winchell Chung — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:18:35 +0000

From a science fiction writer’s standpoint, time-traveler technologies also have an application in a situation like re-industrializing after the decline and fall of the galactic empire.

You cannot re-introduce a given technology to a fallen planet unless you take into account the ancillary technologies required to support it.

By: David Foster

David Foster — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:35:20 +0000

There's a comprehensive and interestingly written history of waterpower called Stronger than a Hundred Men. This book credits the Romans with some waterpower technology and a few large projects but argues that they did not seriously pursue development of this technology largely because of the availability of cheap slave labor and a general contempt for the useful arts.

By: Red

Red — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:38:20 +0000

The Romans were lacking three things later Europeans were not:

Better metals. European metallurgy was the only thing that continued to improve after the fall of Rome. I've read that the only thing the Mongols found of interest in Europe was how advanced their metallurgy was.
Interest in spreading inventions and innovations. The Romans were more into culture and art and less into reading about the latest new tech. This led to slow adoption and development of better tech.
Optics. Being able to read for much longer periods allowed Europeans to read about all these innovations and make their own improvements.