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	<title>Comments on: Observations from Actual Shootings</title>
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	<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/</link>
	<description>From the ancient Greek for equality in freedom of speech; an eclectic mix of thoughts, large and small</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Van Elsberg</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/comment-page-1/#comment-3738663</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Van Elsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Feb 2025 00:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isegoria.net/isegoria/?p=4962#comment-3738663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read all my input on this topic and felt like I largely owned the conversation. Boy, can I get long-winded! That said my current favorite mouse gun is the KelTec P32. It is nice to have something you can have with you at all times. At 72 I am no longer quite the shot I used to be, but the little KelTec will reliably hit what it needs to at close range. I think it is appropriate to say it has a useful role to play for &quot;close-up and personal&quot; encounters. I sure am glad that I am still around!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read all my input on this topic and felt like I largely owned the conversation. Boy, can I get long-winded! That said my current favorite mouse gun is the KelTec P32. It is nice to have something you can have with you at all times. At 72 I am no longer quite the shot I used to be, but the little KelTec will reliably hit what it needs to at close range. I think it is appropriate to say it has a useful role to play for &#8220;close-up and personal&#8221; encounters. I sure am glad that I am still around!</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/comment-page-1/#comment-2607023</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2018 05:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isegoria.net/isegoria/?p=4962#comment-2607023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent read; very informative! The whole .32 ACP performance issue was truly enlightening. I&#039;ve never truly given that caliber the respect it deserves. I&#039;ll be taking a second look at the weapons currently chambered in .32 ACP. The PP/PPK looks like a winner to me. Thank you once again!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent read; very informative! The whole .32 ACP performance issue was truly enlightening. I&#8217;ve never truly given that caliber the respect it deserves. I&#8217;ll be taking a second look at the weapons currently chambered in .32 ACP. The PP/PPK looks like a winner to me. Thank you once again!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert L. Van Elsberg</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/comment-page-1/#comment-2488852</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert L. Van Elsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2016 04:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isegoria.net/isegoria/?p=4962#comment-2488852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For more than two years I have read and researched all I could on the Internet about the usefulness of the .32 ACP for protection. I have particularly looked at the issue of FMJ verses JHP to see if there is an advantage to one or the other. 

I have come to the following conclusions. The .32 FMJ, especially in its hotter European loadings (Sellier &amp; Bellot, Fiocchi and RWS produces energy levels comparable to the .380 ACP when fired from the longer barrels of the Walther PP, PPK or clones such as the FEG AP-MBP (my favorite carry gun). Contrary to the opinions expressed by some, the .32 ACP FMJ does not bore a .309-hole through a human body. What happens is that upon impact the bullet becomes unstable and rotates at least 180 degrees, putting the base of the bullet up front. That flat surface does more damage to whatever tissue it passes through than if the bullet simply penetrated nose-forward. Also, depending on what the bullet hits, it may tumble, increasing the damage to the tissue it encounters. I believe the bullet is also susceptible to veering off from its original course as it strikes muscle or bone and begins to yaw or tumble. I think there is a reason European police departments were fine with the .32 ACP or 7.65mm Browning for most of the 20th Century. Against most criminals it created a serious enough wound that the next item on the bad guy&#039;s agenda was seeking medical care (that is, if they survived. German police did not have the same limitations when dealing with criminals that American police have.) 

It was only when threat of terrorism rose in the latter years of the 20th Century that police departments went to larger calibers such as the 9 mm Luger. There is an obvious reason for that: terrorists, whether driven by a political or religious ideology, are more likely to choose to go down fighting or die for their cause. This is precisely what led to the development of the .45 ACP. American soldiers in the Philippines were fighting fanatical Muslims in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. The .38-caliber revolvers they were issued worked well against civilian criminals but failed miserably against the Muslim Moros. Old Colt Single Action Army revolvers were drawn out of retirement and issued to American soldiers as its .45 Colt cartridge proved a better stopper against their fanatical enemies. The Colt 1911 pistols simply improved upon that concept by increasing the firepower and reducing reloading times. 

That said, most of us will not encounter fanatical Muslim jihadis (although, sadly, it looks like that may be changing in America). As such, the .32 ACP. especially in full-size models such as the Walther PP/PPK and their clones. has, in my opinion, a respectable place as a self-defense firearm. It wouldn&#039;t be my first pick for a gunfight in Afghanistan &#8212; that would go to the .45 ACP &#8212; but for most self-defense scenarios I think it will work. And by the way, I don&#039;t base this on opinion alone. Back in the early 1980s I religiously read the &quot;Armed Citizen&#039;s&quot; column in the American Rifleman. I paid attention to the caliber of the weapons citizens successfully used for self defense. To my surprise, .32-caliber handguns were quite successful. The common thread in those accounts essentially was that the citizen kept on firing until the threat was ended. Ignorant of the arguments on &quot;one-shot stopping power,&quot; they did the logical and rational thing when faced with a threat. Actions, not opinions, are what matters on the street.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more than two years I have read and researched all I could on the Internet about the usefulness of the .32 ACP for protection. I have particularly looked at the issue of FMJ verses JHP to see if there is an advantage to one or the other. </p>
<p>I have come to the following conclusions. The .32 FMJ, especially in its hotter European loadings (Sellier &amp; Bellot, Fiocchi and RWS produces energy levels comparable to the .380 ACP when fired from the longer barrels of the Walther PP, PPK or clones such as the FEG AP-MBP (my favorite carry gun). Contrary to the opinions expressed by some, the .32 ACP FMJ does not bore a .309-hole through a human body. What happens is that upon impact the bullet becomes unstable and rotates at least 180 degrees, putting the base of the bullet up front. That flat surface does more damage to whatever tissue it passes through than if the bullet simply penetrated nose-forward. Also, depending on what the bullet hits, it may tumble, increasing the damage to the tissue it encounters. I believe the bullet is also susceptible to veering off from its original course as it strikes muscle or bone and begins to yaw or tumble. I think there is a reason European police departments were fine with the .32 ACP or 7.65mm Browning for most of the 20th Century. Against most criminals it created a serious enough wound that the next item on the bad guy&#8217;s agenda was seeking medical care (that is, if they survived. German police did not have the same limitations when dealing with criminals that American police have.) </p>
<p>It was only when threat of terrorism rose in the latter years of the 20th Century that police departments went to larger calibers such as the 9 mm Luger. There is an obvious reason for that: terrorists, whether driven by a political or religious ideology, are more likely to choose to go down fighting or die for their cause. This is precisely what led to the development of the .45 ACP. American soldiers in the Philippines were fighting fanatical Muslims in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. The .38-caliber revolvers they were issued worked well against civilian criminals but failed miserably against the Muslim Moros. Old Colt Single Action Army revolvers were drawn out of retirement and issued to American soldiers as its .45 Colt cartridge proved a better stopper against their fanatical enemies. The Colt 1911 pistols simply improved upon that concept by increasing the firepower and reducing reloading times. </p>
<p>That said, most of us will not encounter fanatical Muslim jihadis (although, sadly, it looks like that may be changing in America). As such, the .32 ACP. especially in full-size models such as the Walther PP/PPK and their clones. has, in my opinion, a respectable place as a self-defense firearm. It wouldn&#8217;t be my first pick for a gunfight in Afghanistan &mdash; that would go to the .45 ACP &mdash; but for most self-defense scenarios I think it will work. And by the way, I don&#8217;t base this on opinion alone. Back in the early 1980s I religiously read the &#8220;Armed Citizen&#8217;s&#8221; column in the American Rifleman. I paid attention to the caliber of the weapons citizens successfully used for self defense. To my surprise, .32-caliber handguns were quite successful. The common thread in those accounts essentially was that the citizen kept on firing until the threat was ended. Ignorant of the arguments on &#8220;one-shot stopping power,&#8221; they did the logical and rational thing when faced with a threat. Actions, not opinions, are what matters on the street.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Van Elsberg</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/comment-page-1/#comment-1254683</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Van Elsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2014 04:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isegoria.net/isegoria/?p=4962#comment-1254683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have regained my confidence in my FEG .32 ACP pistol for defense. I have again tested the penetration vis-à-vis other calibers and find the .32 FMJ, especially the European loads, has excellent penetration while tumbling as mentioned earlier. One thing to consider is that you can damage a lot of tissue with multiple rapid-fire hits with a .32 ACP. 

Also, I think there is something to be said for sustaining a period of shock over say a two or three-second timeframe versus a single, perhaps more intense, shock. Look at submachine guns. The Russians used the PPSH in 7.62x25 FMJ to good effect against the Germans in World War Two. Even though the caliber, essentially the same diameter as a .32 ACP, was smaller that the German 9mm or our .45 ACP, the 7.62 put paid to a lot of German soldiers. 

By the way, the 7.62x25 is an awesome round &#8212; not far off the ballistics of the .327 Federal Magnum. I had one of the Czech pistols in that caliber and reloaded it with 85 and 100 grain hollow points intended for the .32 H&amp;R Magnum (resized down the .309). After what I saw in my own tests, a single hit by one of those would cause massive damage and, I believe, instant stopping power. To this day I cannot figure out why American gun makers have not developed handguns in this caliber and hollow point defensive ammunition. I have zero doubt this would be far more successful commercially than the .327 Federal Magnum. 

Anyway, enough of tonight&#039;s ramblings. I will lay my head on my pillow comforted by the thought my FEG is nearby within reach should it be needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have regained my confidence in my FEG .32 ACP pistol for defense. I have again tested the penetration vis-à-vis other calibers and find the .32 FMJ, especially the European loads, has excellent penetration while tumbling as mentioned earlier. One thing to consider is that you can damage a lot of tissue with multiple rapid-fire hits with a .32 ACP. </p>
<p>Also, I think there is something to be said for sustaining a period of shock over say a two or three-second timeframe versus a single, perhaps more intense, shock. Look at submachine guns. The Russians used the PPSH in 7.62&#215;25 FMJ to good effect against the Germans in World War Two. Even though the caliber, essentially the same diameter as a .32 ACP, was smaller that the German 9mm or our .45 ACP, the 7.62 put paid to a lot of German soldiers. </p>
<p>By the way, the 7.62&#215;25 is an awesome round &mdash; not far off the ballistics of the .327 Federal Magnum. I had one of the Czech pistols in that caliber and reloaded it with 85 and 100 grain hollow points intended for the .32 H&amp;R Magnum (resized down the .309). After what I saw in my own tests, a single hit by one of those would cause massive damage and, I believe, instant stopping power. To this day I cannot figure out why American gun makers have not developed handguns in this caliber and hollow point defensive ammunition. I have zero doubt this would be far more successful commercially than the .327 Federal Magnum. </p>
<p>Anyway, enough of tonight&#8217;s ramblings. I will lay my head on my pillow comforted by the thought my FEG is nearby within reach should it be needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/comment-page-1/#comment-1115995</link>
		<dc:creator>Isegoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Feb 2014 19:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isegoria.net/isegoria/?p=4962#comment-1115995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know why you&#039;d feel insecure about carrying a .32 after reading that.  (I also don&#039;t know why you&#039;d assume other people who carry know what they&#039;re doing.)  Anyway, you might enjoy this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.isegoria.net/2012/06/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power/&quot;&gt;alternate look at handgun stopping power&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why you&#8217;d feel insecure about carrying a .32 after reading that.  (I also don&#8217;t know why you&#8217;d assume other people who carry know what they&#8217;re doing.)  Anyway, you might enjoy this <a href="http://www.isegoria.net/2012/06/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power/">alternate look at handgun stopping power</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Van Elsberg</title>
		<link>https://www.isegoria.net/2010/03/observations-from-actual-shootings/comment-page-1/#comment-1115975</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Van Elsberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Feb 2014 18:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isegoria.net/isegoria/?p=4962#comment-1115975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After reading this, I feel very insecure carrying my .32 ACP FEG copy of the Walther PP. I typically carry European loads (Fiocchi or Sellier &amp; Bellot) for their higher velocities compared to domestic loadings. 

Some 30 years ago when I was in Germany in the US Army. I tested German-made RWS 7.65 mm Browning (.32 ACP) FMJ loads against Winchester .380 FMJ bullets. I simply fired them into a stack of old encyclopedias to compare the results. The RWS .32 did, indeed, penetrate deeper than the .380 and tumbled during the process, creating more damage. However, this is merely academic &#8212; it does not reflect how the .32 ACP would work for self defense. 

About all I can assume is that it must work fairly well because so many people carried then for self defense or police work during the 20th Century. My assumption is that people wouldn&#039;t use a gun that wasn&#039;t effective; but then I am not sure what the actual results were. 

Do you have any information or suggestions to help me better understand if my .32 is acceptable for self defense? I would appreciate any thoughtful comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading this, I feel very insecure carrying my .32 ACP FEG copy of the Walther PP. I typically carry European loads (Fiocchi or Sellier &amp; Bellot) for their higher velocities compared to domestic loadings. </p>
<p>Some 30 years ago when I was in Germany in the US Army. I tested German-made RWS 7.65 mm Browning (.32 ACP) FMJ loads against Winchester .380 FMJ bullets. I simply fired them into a stack of old encyclopedias to compare the results. The RWS .32 did, indeed, penetrate deeper than the .380 and tumbled during the process, creating more damage. However, this is merely academic &mdash; it does not reflect how the .32 ACP would work for self defense. </p>
<p>About all I can assume is that it must work fairly well because so many people carried then for self defense or police work during the 20th Century. My assumption is that people wouldn&#8217;t use a gun that wasn&#8217;t effective; but then I am not sure what the actual results were. </p>
<p>Do you have any information or suggestions to help me better understand if my .32 is acceptable for self defense? I would appreciate any thoughtful comments.</p>
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